Thrawn the main thing this needs fixed for is tournament games. It probably wouldn't be used a lot, but the times it will be used will be invaluable to having fair games.

Fair enough. We have never run tournament games, so that is an area I have no knowledge of. We're just trying to get a grasp of the proposed change and trying to figure out if we have to prepare for changes in our current site setup, or if all is good as it is now.

I'm sorry if I evaded you questions in the above, but that would questions best left to JP. I'm just observing things and proposing fixes for problems that I see. The fact that someone can monitor in game events without being logged into a game using time or a time penalty is a problem that needs to be fixed concerning time limit games.

No, that gives us a better picture. I would not have known this issue since we've never done a tournament. Had we the experience/knowledge from running an event like that, I might be looking at this differently.

I'm pretty sure JP can fix this without really effecting your server side scripts. BTW, this isn't something that is new, this problem existed long before Cruncher came back. The time limit bugs and the high score screen monitoring is why time limits aren't used today in tournaments.

No problem, and apologies to Cruncher, you, or SG if I appeared rude in my responses. I saw the mention of altering how the "H" key currently works and though "great, all that work we've done has to be changed yet again". However, I can work around it.

I seen no rude responses. Just a discussion about a possible time limit fix, and some brainstorming on how it could be done, or if it should be done. It's good that you brought up your concerns about how it will effect server side scirpts. Alls good in Betaworld.

No problem, I really don't want to change anything about how people enjoy the game now, just put in what some see as a needed toggle for time limit games.

It did get me thinking about the sysop side of things, I didn't know you used the H from the menu. I guess I had always presumed sysops had "invisable" observers inside the games to collect data.

This game brings out the passion in people.

Our ScoreKeeper script use to be an Observer, but we altered it to get everything outside of the game. The multiple functions it does do uses the "H" key for scores every 15 mins (is adjustable), and the rest is done via T-Edit. I have one script, our OCSBot, that is an Observer account (I made the mistake in the beginning of making it a regular account and people were attacking it lol) so that was changed. Another script we use also is an Observer account and it creates a list of the number of players per game. If a game has 0 players after a set time, or a game has been empty after X days, then it passes that to the ScoreKeeper to rebang that game. Another script does messages to players to announce game information (such as upcoming game rebangs for that game, etc). They all are tied in to the website to pull data that we then provide on site. But like I said, I can work with the changes.

Besides, they say a little revolution is a good thing now and then.

Holy cow! I totally understand why you'd not want anything to mess that up. I never would have imagined this game being managed like this. That's unbeleivable! Good Job!

We don't have time limit tourney's because peeps don't like it. Has nothing to do with "H" screens. People have Real Lives and having to log in to cover your "time" period interferes in life. I was in the last big one with a time limit if I remember rightly and the poll taken right after said peeps didn't Like all the HASSLE of covering the grid in shift's. Too much work.

Much easier to just stay on 24/7 so people can cash etc via bot when suitable for all concerned.
Going to work groggy and unproductive in an economy where everyone stabs each other in the back for every dollar wont feed the kiddies. Getting peeps together to cash just b4 extern was a pain with multiple time zones. All the BS with that game and stbot issues afterwards made me go out and write a real helper to play with.

The time limit games aren't popular because of bugs and players exploiting loop holes in the game such as the "H" display. Time limit games wouldn't be time consuming if it worked correctly. A player logs in runs thier turns and logs out. The time consuming part comes when players try to find ways to beat the system. Time limit games are meant for exactly that purpose, so players with real lifes can get into the game for a X amount of time and then get out and relax.

That's part of the reason I'm all for 10pm EST externs!

Old folks gonna work ya know, we're not kids any more.

I haven't got through all 5 pages of posts, but I agree completely on all aspects of this post. CLV is used for different things by different people when viewing games. Why mess with it? It isn't broken or in need of some type of imagined improvement.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

That's another issue. It's not advisable to run xtern before midnight because of the data update factors involved. The biggest factor is you can get back in the game after being ship destroyed at midnight, but pods are reset at xtern. Soooo. If you get killed between xtern and midnight, you have to go until the next extern to get your pods.