View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Apr 23, 2026 7:32 pm



Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 Node Issue 
Author Message
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
Unread post Re: Node Issue
Vid Kid wrote:
Like the strategy .. Sub space crawling to gain info on your opponents activities ?

Why would anyone even use Sub space when we have much more secure communications availalbe on the internet?

_________________
Regards,
Micro

Website: http://www.microblaster.net
TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002

ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord:
https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN


Last edited by Micro on Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:35 pm
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
John Pritchett wrote:
Not sure I agree that it's more of an issue for manual players. Non-scripting players don't use Subspace nearly as much. This is as big a problem as it is because Subspace has become a means of coordinating bots. If I'm just using a channel for a bit of chatter now and then, the odds of you finding me while scanning are still pretty small.


It's more a problem for casual (not just manual) users playing against scripted players. SS is not used to coordinate bots as much as it is to report current status of things. Like while cashing, many cashing scripts output the MCIC and results to SS to keep people up to date. There's a wide gap between heavy bot users and casually scripted players. Even cruncher here has admitted to using cashing scripts.

John Pritchett wrote:
I'm sure if this is enough of a problem, bots will stop using subspace for communication and start communicating outside the game or some other solution.


Already done. My bot authenticates via corp message like mombot does, and accepts commands from authenticated users via private hail (if enabled, and if the command has the access level set to enable it). My saveme can now work entirely over private message, and my pgridder now responds entirely over private hail too, eliminating SS flood.

I've even added a "comsec" mode so that, when enabled, the bot no longer reports sector numbers and other critical bits of information via SS (altho I haven't fixed all commands yet).

So yes, a lot of us are already adapting to this problem. That only widens the gap further.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:39 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote:
[Why would anyone even use Sub space when we have much more secure communications availalbe on the internet?


Play in a large corp sometime, see how it works out.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:39 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
Unread post Re: Node Issue
Singularity wrote:
1. Is it in game? If not, it's cheating.

2. It's in game? Is it a known bug? If so, it might be cheating

3. If it's a known bug, and it's not been explicitly labeled cheating, then it's legal. If it's been explicitly labeled cheating, then there's a rule against it.

To that end, a sysop can set whatever rules they want. However not all rules can be enforced by the game, thus the sysop has to police their own server. That is a very difficult prospect. A little practicality is in order.


Not according to some people, they seem to think that anything the server will allow is perfectly legal regardless of weather the game designer intended it to be that way or not. Just becasue I can move a pawn sideways on a chess board doesn't make it a legal move. I shouldn't expect the game board to enfore the rules, because it is just a piece of wood and can't be expected to do that.

_________________
Regards,
Micro

Website: http://www.microblaster.net
TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002

ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord:
https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN


Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:53 pm
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
Unread post Re: Node Issue
Singularity wrote:
Play in a large corp sometime, see how it works out.


I was refering more to human use than script use, but scripts can easily use simple encription routines to scramble the data.

_________________
Regards,
Micro

Website: http://www.microblaster.net
TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002

ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord:
https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN


Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:01 pm
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote:
I was refering more to human use than script use, but scripts can easily use simple encription routines to scramble the data.


And I was referring more to human use than script use, too. Again, try playing on a large corp sometime.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:12 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote:
Not according to some people, they seem to think that anything the server will allow is perfectly legal regardless of weather the game designer intended it to be that way or not. Just becasue I can move a pawn sideways on a chess board doesn't make it a legal move. I shouldn't expect the game board to enfore the rules, because it is just a piece of wood and can't be expected to do that.


Chess analogy fails because each move is perfectly visible to all players. If you try an illegal move in a turny, you'll be penalized. If you try it w/ other players, they'll call you on it. If you try it in TW, nobody else sees it, thus the game has to be able to enforce it or the burden falls on the sysop.

If the sysop sets a rule that something isn't allowed, then that's the way it is. But it's also going to be up to that sysop to enforce the rule. Good luck on that.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:14 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
Unread post Re: Node Issue
Singularity wrote:
MicroBlaster wrote:
Not according to some people, they seem to think that anything the server will allow is perfectly legal regardless of weather the game designer intended it to be that way or not. Just becasue I can move a pawn sideways on a chess board doesn't make it a legal move. I shouldn't expect the game board to enfore the rules, because it is just a piece of wood and can't be expected to do that.


Chess analogy fails because each move is perfectly visible to all players. If you try an illegal move in a turny, you'll be penalized. If you try it w/ other players, they'll call you on it. If you try it in TW, nobody else sees it, thus the game has to be able to enforce it or the burden falls on the sysop.

If the sysop sets a rule that something isn't allowed, then that's the way it is. But it's also going to be up to that sysop to enforce the rule. Good luck on that.


So you use a diversion of some sort. You can still cheat at Chess.

EDIT: Monopoly would be a better example. I used to ALWAYS win, I wonder how I did that?

_________________
Regards,
Micro

Website: http://www.microblaster.net
TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002

ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord:
https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN


Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:26 pm
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote:
So you use a diversion of some sort. You can still cheat at Chess.


LOL. Only if the other party isn't paying attention, which proves my point. Your actions are only completely visible to 2 parties in TW: The game server and the sysop. If the game server can't stop it, then the sysop has to. Good luck there.

MicroBlaster wrote:
EDIT: Monopoly would be a better example. I used to ALWAYS win, I wonder how I did that?


Taking extra money from the bank would be akin to using tedit to give your corp extra cash. That would be cheating in both worlds. Faulty analogies are faulty.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:38 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am
Posts: 4016
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
Singularity wrote:
Cruncher wrote:
We almost do need some sort of a bbs front-end to authenticate users logging in.


Well you can do a BBS, but that's not very secure.

What we need is a TLS option along with telnet/rsh. Have a public cert store and only accept matching certs. The sysop can then either accept X509 certs from people directly, or setup a front end w/ a cert and use that to auth ppl w/ a login and password. That same front end could be used to monitor and disconnect squatters, and it wouldn't have to be kept up by JP.

Cruncher wrote:
I'm going to see if summer classes have started yet, see if I can't get started on a computer science degree.


LOL yeh, have fun. Enjoy differential equations, I know I did. ;)


Probably as much fun as doing a 30 year amortization without a calculator.

I might like to know more about the stunnel. I have a new terrabyte server for the office, as soon as I get everything transfered over, and the old server formated I'll have a dedicated TWGS machine.

_________________

BOTE 1998 Champs: Team Fament
HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09
Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team
HHT 2018 Champs: Rock Stars
Big Game 2019 Champs: Draft Team


Classic Style Games Here:
telnet://crunchers-twgs.com:2002

Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155645/http://tradewars.fament.com/Cruncher/tradewar.htm
Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com
Discord: https://discord.gg/4dja5Z8
E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW


Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:48 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
Cruncher wrote:
Probably as much fun as doing a 30 year amortization without a calculator.


Finite math is pretty easy. You'll be able to do that in your first year. The stuff that always gave me headaches was trying to integrate over multiple axes. Simple stuff was do-able, but figuring the volume of complex 3d sine waves... not so much. Strangely, I actually found harmonics and Fourier series transforms to be pretty easy in concept. Of course by the time I got into that stuff, we had mathcad to help with the mundane crap.

Cruncher wrote:
I might like to know more about the stunnel. I have a new terrabyte server for the office, as soon as I get everything transfered over, and the old server formated I'll have a dedicated TWGS machine.


Read up on TLS and dual key encryption. Stunnel is based on the openSSL standard.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:58 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am
Posts: 3151
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
I was always a big fan of the Laplace Transform.

Partial differential equations was definitely one of my most difficult courses in college. Most difficult goes to Quantum Physics with a chinese professor who barely spoke english! Professor Kwak.

_________________
John Pritchett
EIS
---
Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.


Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:16 am
Profile WWW
Ambassador
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
Unread post Re: Node Issue
Singularity wrote:
Taking extra money from the bank would be akin to using tedit to give your corp extra cash. That would be cheating in both worlds. Faulty analogies are faulty.


You can only do that if you are the banker. I still found ways to cheat when I wasn't the banker. The point is that it is still cheating even though I didn't get caught.

_________________
Regards,
Micro

Website: http://www.microblaster.net
TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002

ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord:
https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN


Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:37 am
Profile ICQ YIM WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
John Pritchett wrote:
I was always a big fan of the Laplace Transform.
Partial differential equations was definitely one of my most difficult courses in college. Most difficult goes to Quantum Physics with a chinese professor who barely spoke english! Professor Kwak.


Hahaha, been there. Not sure what it is about complex topics, but it seems they're always taught by people w/o a solid grasp of English.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:05 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Veteran Op
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am
Posts: 5558
Location: USA
Unread post Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote:
You can only do that if you are the banker. I still found ways to cheat when I wasn't the banker. The point is that it is still cheating even though I didn't get caught.


Except in monopoly, the rules are predefined by the game. TW doesn't have that. Faulty analogies are faulty. In TW, the rules are defined by the server and the sysop, so the moral impetus falls there.

_________________
May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
Image


Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:09 am
Profile ICQ WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 480 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by wSTSoftware.