So I'm a noob, just getting back into the game. I've got SWATH, as I like the multiple features and appreciate the saftey stuff built in to keep me from blind warping, attacking my own corp mates, auto haggle, etc.
I am beginning to outgrow it, and have started to run ZOC alongside SWATH, putting in new buttons and hot keys on ZOC when I find SWATH lacking something. I put both through TWXProxy, as it is awesome to double your helpers abilties by using both.
To my question, I'm starting to learn a bit about the various scripts out there, and am wanting to tweak them and improve on the public ones and basically write my own. Which is the best type of language to pick up? If I want to just concentrate on one, which?
In other words; which is faster, the Java scripts in SWATH, the Rexx driven ZOC scripts, or the .cts files for twxproxy?

I'd just as soon learn the best off the bat and just dabble in the lesser used or outdated languages.
Thanks for your time,
Crosby

On a related note, I'm assuming that a .cts file is a hair quicker than a .ts file. Isn't this true?
I've done a search on this subject, and I get a ton of great hits that make for great reading, but don't quite hit the mark.

I prefer to use TWX for scripting as it was designed for TradeWars, and seems to be the easiest for me to use. TWX is very fast, but I don't know if it is really any faster than the other two mentioned.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

I guess I should realize that these languages will all move at incredible speeds, compared to hand typed commands and my slo witted human decision making. I am trying to think in terms of fractions of a second, then millions of times over.
I do like the user friendliness of TWX, especially as the .ts scripts are then compiled to .cts, right? I guess I think of this as more efficient, compiling pre-execution, rather than compiling at the time of execution. Is this even right?

Thanks for your imput Prom, isn't the 'Promonitor' your's? (been using it, works great)

.cts files load faster, but they perform the same. Essentially, a .ts file must be compiled, then loaded into memory. The .cts file is that compiled version of the script, so the compilation step is skipped when launching a .cts file. But both of the script formats result in the exact same code loaded into memory.

Hands down, TWX Proxy has the simplest scripting language. And it's way faster than Java. It's written for Trade Wars, and its wicked fast. I'm sure there are some things that are faster in Rexx, but TWX has the speed advantage in general.

So its a no-brainer. TWX.

+EP+

quote:Originally posted by Crosby

So I'm a noob, just getting back into the game. I've got SWATH, as I like the multiple features and appreciate the saftey stuff built in to keep me from blind warping, attacking my own corp mates, auto haggle, etc.
I am beginning to outgrow it, and have started to run ZOC alongside SWATH, putting in new buttons and hot keys on ZOC when I find SWATH lacking something. I put both through TWXProxy, as it is awesome to double your helpers abilties by using both.
To my question, I'm starting to learn a bit about the various scripts out there, and am wanting to tweak them and improve on the public ones and basically write my own. Which is the best type of language to pick up? If I want to just concentrate on one, which?
In other words; which is faster, the Java scripts in SWATH, the Rexx driven ZOC scripts, or the .cts files for twxproxy?

I'd just as soon learn the best off the bat and just dabble in the lesser used or outdated languages.
Thanks for your time,
Crosby

On a related note, I'm assuming that a .cts file is a hair quicker than a .ts file. Isn't this true?
I've done a search on this subject, and I get a ton of great hits that make for great reading, but don't quite hit the mark.



Telix SALT II.

Thanks for the quick reply, EP. Really, from what I've been reading, twx is being confirmed as the quickest, and easiest to learn to write tradewars scripts.

Glad I printed out all of the Cabal's Scripting tutorials! I also have been tearing apart .ts scripts and seeing how they are written. I gotta admit, it looks a lot more understandable than Java.

Thanks for the feedback, now I gotta go look up: Telix SALT II

now there are a few really fast scripts out there for swath, they incorporate macros in then for the speed like Vito's world trade, and Vito's WSST

But in general TWX is the winner hands down.

quote:Originally posted by Crosby

Thanks for the quick reply, EP. Really, from what I've been reading, twx is being confirmed as the quickest, and easiest to learn to write tradewars scripts.

Glad I printed out all of the Cabal's Scripting tutorials! I also have been tearing apart .ts scripts and seeing how they are written. I gotta admit, it looks a lot more understandable than Java.

Thanks for the feedback, now I gotta go look up: Telix SALT II





http://sac-ftp.externet.hu/comm21.html

Files you need for SALT II are:
tfw115d1.zip and tfw115d2.zip.

It is very similar to C. Excellent file I/O and string integer manipulation, supports DDE, can use live msdos shell. Even works under Gates' latest crap.

ok, I got both those files Kavanagh, and I'll try 'em out, along w/ tera term which is pretty quick I've heard. Getting off scripting subject, but my ZOC eval period has expired and I'm lookin' into new Term prog. (Zoc is nice, but not 90$ nice) I know, another topic, but I'll do an extensive search first.

As for SWATH speed scripts, ya, I've been using Vito's World SSM and the World Trade in the unlims I've tried. Those are Mind Dagger's right? They do indeed work extremely fast, which prompts my above question. So if it came down to a Java Macro or a burst from twx, aren't they just different ways to get to the same thing? A packet of data sent at once.
Is there a way to tell if a Java P-Drop is quicker than a macro, short of getting in a game and tryin' it out? Just seeing if you guys all swore by one or the other, tryin to learn from YOUR experience!

Thanks again for all the input,
Crosby

Crosby,
Salt is nice, but I think Kav is the only one left that uses it. That could be a good thing or a bad thing.

I know people who let their demo of ZOC expire 4 years ago. It still works, but the load delay is measured in minutes. heh. Myself, I registered it. I use it for work too. Love it love it love it. I don't even use swath anymore.

Burst = Macro in most cases. when you use the send command in twx, it sends everything on that line as a burst. one packet. Macros are hands down the fastest thing out there. Most really experienced players use macros more than scripts. Once you get to the point where the commands become second nature, macros really become your friend. There are several good macro manager scripts floating around that you might want to look at.

as far as speed goes, macro/burst = fastest.
it takes 250ms to move between sectors minimum. Using a planet beamer or planet warp is nearly instant. It takes 250ms to send an attack against another player. interestingly, it takes no perceptable time to kill a sector fig. so you can move 4 sectors per second or attack 4 times per second. But if you put a move, then attack, then a move into a burst, it's gonna take 750 ms to do it all. just keep that in mind.

I have an adj photoner that finds an adj fig faster than anything else I've seen. Does it matter? No. The public ones are just as fast from a play perspective. While people like EP and myself pride ourselves speed and fewest lines in our scripts, the reality is that there is a point of diminishing returns. Don't get so focused on speed that you lose sight of the original goal of the script. If it's good enough, don't waste cycles trying to make it needlessly faster when you could be writing something else that you might need more. And most importantly, don't get too fixated on scripts. Good macros are the hallmark of an A-list player.

Vito's stuff is written by Vito. MD's stuff used to be all java but he has
since gone to TWX scripting (partly due to me, hehehe). TWX scripting is fast,
but it's also really easy. Completely intuitive. That's the biggest reason
to use TWX versus Java. It takes hours to write a script in Java that would
only take 30 minutes to write in TWX. If done correctly, using sendText or some
other burst send... they're both about equal. But trying to understand all of
the exception handling in java can make your eyes cross very quickly.

# --------------------------------------------------
getWord CURRENTLINE $prompt 1
if ($prompt <> "Citadel") AND ($prompt <> "Command")
clientMessage "Wrong prompt!"
halt
end
send "I"
waitFor "<Info>"
waitFor "Credits :"
getWord CURRENTLINE $credit_amount 3
stripText $credit_amount ","
# --------------------------------------------------

You don't have to be a programmer to understand that. Gets the 1st word
from the current line to check for prompt. If it's good it sends "I",
waits for "<Info>" then waits for the credits line. Grabs the credit
amount and removes the comma. With a little creativity you could use
this approach to parse a lot of info w/ little work.

Scripting is good. But Traitor is right, macros are king. I use TWX's
$b more than anything else. I also love swath's ability to put a macro
in the TW console line and execute it by just pressing enter. Great
for spur-of-the-moment things that you kindof expect at any second. IMHO
scripted macros are the best of both worlds. If you write a good macro
you can prompt for information and get the speed of a macro and the
flexibility of a script.

T, I'd like to see how you beat a simple goto loop in finding an adj fig. =)

Heh, be careful what you ask Sing. I've spent many hours with Traitor and RammaR tweaking and benchmarking adj. fig reaction speed. This sort of persuit of perfection is why I added the getTimer function in the upcoming TWX release... esentially the most precise timing measurement doable on a PC. Trait had some very interesting ideas to test, but like he said... diminishing returns. For example, I think the best adj. reaction routine I came up with was .018 mSecs. But let me ask you: If your reaction time is .018 mS, and your opponents reaction time is a horrendous 2.000 mSecs, but his ping time is just 5 mSecs better than yours, who's script is going to react faster?

+EP+

Crosby,

It comes down to personal prefs about what to use, and I suspect what language to do it in. I have seen Java scripts that work as fast as TWX scripts, but they were written by and used by players who use Java for many uses, thus extremely fluent in it anyway.

Players who are not programmers can write scripts for TWX and be as good as those pros.

But as mentioned several times above, macros rule. Personaly I use a TWX/SWATH combo (SWATH usually keeps the stupid (Immediate) stuff under control for me (and I am reminded constantly I need that). There are some Macros I use almost daily, and SWATH make that happen easilly. When it is something that I need abnormally, I use a TWX written burst. That is just me though.

The "burst" ability was huge when one was using dial-up. Most "Good" players use something else (connection wise, like cable or DSL). The "Burst" sent commands in data packets in the size that connection could handle fastest. That is not usually any issue anymore with a broadband connection. Just to confuse you more, macro's (short ones) sent by both seem plenty fast. As EP already mentioned, the ping time is probably more important in the above cases.

Scripts however are another matter. Examples are TWX/SWATH, since that is what I know best. SWATH scripts would be processed by the helper and if something (like CBY, or a BWARP is involved for examples...) you want it to save you from doing is in it, then it does not happen since the helper reviews stuff you seend out and stops any bad commands like the CBY's, etc.

With TWX, the commands get sent out without any review. This means they get sent faster and as they are written. Thus in this case the TWX scripts are zipping along quickly while SWATH scripts are being checked, double-checked.

Wow, I think this is the longest post I have ever made... [}:)]

EP, reason I asked... timing is an area I've never delved into. Prior to
recently I was on a very fast computer and an extra few lines of code really
didn't add any execution time. I didn't feel it was worth the investment of
time when that time could just as easily be used elsewhere. Then I get stuck
in a slower laptop for a while where just doing a getdistance takes a visible
amount of time. My thoughts on that changed immediately (started using a lot
more loops)... =)

Crosby...
Nice thing about bursts is they all go to the server at once, instead of
sending a little... waiting, sending more. It's risky in cases of blind warp
as sev said, but it can get you out of sooo many sticky situations.

Telix for windows (SALT II) is no longer supported by DeltaComm. The 45 day eval period that they gave 10 years ago never expires since they dropped it - they released a version before they folded which never expires, but it still counts down to day 2. This was deliberate on their part, when they knew they were going out of business.


quote:Originally posted by Crosby


ok, I got both those files Kavanagh, and I'll try 'em out, along w/ tera term which is pretty quick I've heard. Getting off scripting subject, but my ZOC eval period has expired and I'm lookin' into new Term prog. (Zoc is nice, but not 90$ nice) I know, another topic, but I'll do an extensive search first.

As for SWATH speed scripts, ya, I've been using Vito's World SSM and the World Trade in the unlims I've tried. Those are Mind Dagger's right? They do indeed work extremely fast, which prompts my above question. So if it came down to a Java Macro or a burst from twx, aren't they just different ways to get to the same thing? A packet of data sent at once.
Is there a way to tell if a Java P-Drop is quicker than a macro, short of getting in a game and tryin' it out? Just seeing if you guys all swore by one or the other, tryin to learn from YOUR experience!

Thanks again for all the input,
Crosby