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Parasites continued
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33612		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Big D [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Parasites continued
Read this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33609

Post your comments in this thread.
Author:  T0yman [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
I am curious why the other was locked. This forum sends mixed messages about what you can or can't talk about. Seemed the conversation was not hostile or out of line....so why the lock? Is the word parasite the problem?

Open Discussions
Talk about anything on your mind, TradeWars or not.
Author:  Oso [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
I am all for having a discussion regarding the merits of whether or not the old-school players have been properly affixed with the monicker of "parasite", but in the original thread there really wasn't a call for comment as there is in this one. With that in mind, this thread will stay open, but please keep in mind that I'm not too keen bringing in posts from other forums.

If it were me, I would have posted something along the lines of "In another TW forum, one user stated that people using scripts for the past 10 years are not real players of the game, but are really parasites who must be eradicated from TradeWars, for the benefit of those less-skilled players who would be playing on hypothetical and as yet undeveloped platforms. To those out there- do you feel that you are a parasite on this game for using scripts and other helpers?"

I would call on Cruncher to better defend such a distasteful statement, but at the same time I call on you all to keep it civil. You know where you can take it if you cannot.
Author:  Big D [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
I can do that Oso.

To Cruncher:

Please explain why you think that we are parasites for using TWX and other advanced helpers & scripts. This is the way the game has evolved without the support of the owner of Tradewars for years. Do you think that you are in the right to come back after being absent for 10 years and lobby to change the game for a few individuals that can't compete in todays style of play? Why not leave us our game and make a new game for those few players?

I'd like to ask JP a question also. Why not just fix the bugs in version 1 and continue support for the game that you left us with for years? A few changes would have probably been accepted, but you've changed the timings and several other changes that are NOT optional to discourage script use. Those changes aren't sitting over well with the majority of the existing players. Let's get back on track before this game disappears all together.
Author:  Cruncher [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Oso wrote:

I would call on Cruncher to better defend such a distasteful statement, but at the same time I call on you all to keep it civil. You know where you can take it if you cannot.


This was a quote out of context in the "Smack" forum.

We have an ongoing debate about the actual number of real players today. Since fewer and fewer are playing 1.03, some people thing the game is dead, and that I "cut the heart" out of this game.

Some think the game died 10 years ago.

So, the debate goes, the very aggressive players killed the game 10 years ago, or I killed it on my return when I saw that JP was working on it again.

My argument is that more people than ever before are playing today, but the majority of them are in private games now.

My rebuttal to Big D:

"I guess, you're taking so much offense because it strikes a cord. You or Farley accused me of cutting the heart out of TW, I keep defending my actions with the fact that more people are playing today than ever before, just not in "your" public games running 1.03. So in my defense to your accusing me of cutting the heart out, I responded with removing some parasites that were sucking the life out of the game. If you see yourself in that role, then I can see why you are taking offense.

I never once specifically called anyone a parasite, you presumed your actions must have emulated that of a parasite. This is all on you! LOL"

Another ongoing debate that I'm accused of forcing players to leave this game, and Big D named a handful of them. In my defense hundreds if not thousands of players left the game 10 years ago when heavy script play became more popular.

I'm humbled that anyone think that I have this much power or influence over this game. This is JP's baby and I am but one of many he's asked opinions of. (I just maybe happen to be the most vocal on my view point.)
Author:  Big D [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Cruncher wrote:
This was a quote out of context in the "Smack" forum.


Try not to derail this thread with political rhetoric by changing the topic to whether the game is dead or not, because it's clearly worse off today than it was 2 years ago.

Back to the topic...
The original post included the last 3 quotes of that topic. It's pretty obvious that you intended to weed out "parasites" that play this game. Who are these "parasites" that you were you referring to? Simple question that you are seriously avoiding.
Author:  TheButcher [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Cruncher wrote:
Oso wrote:

I would call on Cruncher to better defend such a distasteful statement, but at the same time I call on you all to keep it civil. You know where you can take it if you cannot.


This was a quote out of context in the "Smack" forum.

We have an ongoing debate about the actual number of real players today. Since fewer and fewer are playing 1.03, some people thing the game is dead, and that I "cut the heart" out of this game.

Some think the game died 10 years ago.

So, the debate goes, the very aggressive players killed the game 10 years ago, or I killed it on my return when I saw that JP was working on it again.

My argument is that more people than ever before are playing today, but the majority of them are in private games now.

My rebuttal to Big D:

"I guess, you're taking so much offense because it strikes a cord. You or Farley accused me of cutting the heart out of TW, I keep defending my actions with the fact that more people are playing today than ever before, just not in "your" public games running 1.03. So in my defense to your accusing me of cutting the heart out, I responded with removing some parasites that were sucking the life out of the game. If you see yourself in that role, then I can see why you are taking offense.

I never once specifically called anyone a parasite, you presumed your actions must have emulated that of a parasite. This is all on you! LOL"

Another ongoing debate that I'm accused of forcing players to leave this game, and Big D named a handful of them. In my defense hundreds if not thousands of players left the game 10 years ago when heavy script play became more popular.

I'm humbled that anyone think that I have this much power or influence over this game. This is JP's baby and I am but one of many he's asked opinions of. (I just maybe happen to be the most vocal on my view point.)


Can you say, "enough rope to hang yourself"? Iam seeing alot of back pedaling going on!!!
Author:  Cruncher [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Talk about mountain out of a mole hill!

This is just some pre-game flame/smack.

Move on guys, this topic is done.
Author:  Big D [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Cruncher wrote:
Talk about mountain out of a mole hill!

This is just some pre-game flame/smack.

Move on guys, this topic is done.



It will be done when the question is answered.
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Big D wrote:
Cruncher wrote:
Big D wrote:
I may write a few macros and log in and massacre a few of these players just to spite you. Maybe it will open thier eyes to the real world of Tradewars. :P


Lovely, yet another IP to ban. LOL

And you wonder why no one wants to play with you any more....



It will be done when the question is answered.


OK, you Big D are a parasite who looks to suck the fun out of the game for a great many players just because they don't care to play "your style" of game.

Is it any wonder why I keep trying to find ways to "shield" casual players who enjoy playing the game against players like yourself who seek to make trouble for those just returning or learning?
Author:  Oso [ Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Thank you for your honesty.
I am only disappointed that you tried to tapdance around your comments first. If you believe in something, then be proud of that belief and do not try to skirt the issue like a politician (far worse than a parasite IMHO).

People can now debate the merits of your comments knowing exactly what you meant- that script users are parasites who feed off the enjoyment of others. I could take it to the next logical comparison, likening it to people who hack in an online game just to cause problems for others. Would that not be a correct assumption?
Author:  T0yman [ Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Cruncher wrote:
OK, you Big D are a parasite who looks to suck the fun out of the game for a great many players just because they don't care to play "your style" of game.

Is it any wonder why I keep trying to find ways to "shield" casual players who enjoy playing the game against players like yourself who seek to make trouble for those just returning or learning?

I can honestly say I don't remember never seeing Big D or his crew in any building type games. Other than those aren't they all kill'em all games?
I know Vid and his group have played a few buidling games just to dominate and irritate other players. Nothing wrong with a little butt kicking once in a while to remind players they may not be the top of the heap.
I know when I was learning after 30 or so days of being #SD# I learned to shut my mouth and start asking questions on how to survive, and Karl was kind enough to spend time teaching me the inner workings of scripts. From my experience most all players are the same, ask and they will help. Start playing the smack game and you will get smacked around to the point of you might not enjoy playing anywhere. I have myself hunted a few players from server to server until they decided to change their attitude and listen. But not everyone learns that lesson, so they become as you call them "guppy's" in the shark tank until they finally decide to move on to WOW or some other type game.

Ok I might be wrong I think they did log in a game once but I don't remember them leaving dock, just sitting making threats :shock:

Oh and script users are parasites.....riding on the backs of the scripter writers .. :lol:
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
Oso wrote:
Thank you for your honesty.
I am only disappointed that you tried to tapdance around your comments first. If you believe in something, then be proud of that belief and do not try to skirt the issue like a politician (far worse than a parasite IMHO).

People can now debate the merits of your comments knowing exactly what you meant- that script users are parasites who feed off the enjoyment of others. I could take it to the next logical comparison, likening it to people who hack in an online game just to cause problems for others. Would that not be a correct assumption?



Not at all. I use scripts, and I enjoy aggressive games. I don't care for truce games or games that have "safe zones" or SD next to fed space or any of the other things that have been used before we had the options that v2 affords us.

With the settings available to sysops in v2, we can take the "bite" out of the most aggressive script tactics that ruin turn and time limit games. Mine go a step further and delay planet movement, just because I think a planet is too deadly a weapon for those just returning and getting to know the game again. Once they are comfortable, I expect to see them leave my server and play in more aggressive games.

There are a select few who enjoy whacking noobs every chance they get. Big D may or may not be one of these individuals, but his comment peev'ed me off.

I don't know who the "parasites" are, but only honorable aggressive script players seek to play against others in their own "class" so to speak, and don't enjoy killing noobs.

So, once this flash client becomes available, it was mine and Vid's first gut reaction that noobs will be drawn to this like moths to a flame. You don't need to know how to setup and use telnet clients if you just hit a link from a web page to the flash client and suddenly you're in a game.

It's my guess that they will try to play games 100% manually against others who use scripts or helpers. Even just a casual player using Swath will stomp all over anyone trying to play manually with a flash client.

I'm all for getting at least some basic trading, hauling & colonizing scripts built into the flash client. So those who aren't familiar with telnet clients and scripting can have some fun.

I fully expect the flash client to open up opportunities for new helper or flash script development. This is a positive move to keep this old game updated.
Author:  Micro [ Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
T0yman wrote:
Oh and script users are parasites.....riding on the backs of the scripter writers .. :lol:

To me, it has a lot less to do with scripting that it does with the attitude these players have... Constantly looking for any bug they can exploit and to win the game at any expense...

Other people like to play games to have FUN...
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parasites continued
T0yman wrote:

Oh and script users are parasites.....riding on the backs of the scripter writers .. :lol:


It's no secret that I don't write TWX scripts. It was also you and Xanos who when you learned that I was going to college to learn how to program, told me NOT to attempt to learn TWX while I was learning to code in C#.

I've never coded a helper program either, but I've paid for and have used many of them over the years. TWar for Windows, TWHelper for DOS, and Swath.

And as for asking... I asked, you just kept beating my corp down in a builders game anyhow. And I believe I MANUALLY pdroped you that game as well.

Then you buddied up to me, now you're cutting me down again. You flip-flop more than a politician. LOL
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