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Concerning Micro and cheating...
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=32062		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  John Pritchett [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Concerning Micro and cheating...
Dr Doog, I don't know you at all, and I certainly don't want to impugn you in any way, and I can understand your frustration about the events you've described, but I have known Micro for many years and I am completely confident in his integrity and I would vouch for him in a second. Trust me, I wouldn't do that for just any gameop ;)

If in fact there was some external circumstance involved in the infiltration of your base, there are other possibilities. One, TWGS admin access was hacked. Two, there is a bug that is known by some but not yet reported to me. I think either of these possibilities is more likely than that Micro would cheat in any way.
Author:  Farley [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
I, personally, (for what ever that is worth...laff) thing doog owes a heart felt apology to Micro. Considering he hasnt played in years, and has no idea what possibilities have opened up with the new version work that has been performed.

JMO
Author:  Promethius [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
John Pritchett wrote:
Dr Doog, I don't know you at all, and I certainly don't want to impugn you in any way, and I can understand your frustration about the events you've described, but I have known Micro for many years and I am completely confident in his integrity and I would vouch for him in a second. Trust me, I wouldn't do that for just any gameop ;)

If in fact there was some external circumstance involved in the infiltration of your base, there are other possibilities. One, TWGS admin access was hacked. Two, there is a bug that is known by some but not yet reported to me. I think either of these possibilities is more likely than that Micro would cheat in any way.



...as I have known Doog for at least 7 years, I would also trust what he says - Micro I don't know except for his posts and from FB, but he seems like a pretty decent guy. Something out of the ordinary, in my opinion, did happen and it is just a matter of what.
Author:  Farley [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
Promethius wrote:
...as I have known Doog for at least 7 years, I would also trust what he says - Micro I don't know except for his posts and from FB, but he seems like a pretty decent guy. Something out of the ordinary, in my opinion, did happen and it is just a matter of what.

That is not in doubt, but would you have jumped straight to the forum and cried sysop cheat? (considering the circumstances, changes that doog has never seen) or would you have tried to get to the bottom of the issue?

If it is discovered that a sysop did cheat, then its open season, however, I dont believe that is the case here.
Author:  Promethius [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
Farley wrote:
Promethius wrote:
...as I have known Doog for at least 7 years, I would also trust what he says - Micro I don't know except for his posts and from FB, but he seems like a pretty decent guy. Something out of the ordinary, in my opinion, did happen and it is just a matter of what.

That is not in doubt, but would you have jumped straight to the forum and cried sysop cheat? (considering the circumstances, changes that doog has never seen) or would you have tried to get to the bottom of the issue?

If it is discovered that a sysop did cheat, then its open season, however, I dont believe that is the case here.


Probably so on using the forums to warn about a situation. It is similar to finding a Ferrengi Scorpion fully loaded in my base one day. The ship still showed as being owned by the Ferrengi, but no "pilot". I hadn't capped it, and my base was shielded L6s so it wasn't towed in w/o cannons firing (besides it was owned by the Ferrengi). I went to the forums to warn others. The Op was playing in the game, unknown to me at the time, and I haven't been back to that server. I wish him well as an Op, because he sure can't play.

Most Ops that cheat only cheat because they don't think anyone will call them on it - they don't see the harm in helping their buddy out because it is only a game. For some reason you don't seem to have blatent T-Editing by Ops that post game bangs in this forum very often. I think they value their reputation - even to the point that if they play on their own server they state so and the game.

Did Micro cheat - doubt it. Did something happen out of the ordinary - most likely. JP gave two possible issues and that provides sufficient doubt on Micro doing anything in T-Edit. When that comes from the game programmer, then it is something that can be considered a little more seriously. JP also vouched for Micro, and I don't think he would do that unless he was certain of Micro's integrity - good enough for me.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
I definitely agree, something was odd. And I didn't mean to imply that Dr Doog was dishonest or misrepresenting anything. Just saying that there are lots of possibilities that don't require Micro to be a cheater. If it is a bug, it's an unfortunate reality that I'll probably be the last one to know about it, because a bug like that is a valuable commodity.
Author:  Big D [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
There is a very simple explaination, and I have used this tactic several times in games to obtain access to bubble sectors.

You scatter out empty ships with a few fighters in bubbles and dead ends throughout the universe with just enough figs to retake the sector it is located in. You of course then get within export range of the sector you want to retake, export to the ship, exit/enter, and call saveme. Most grid scripts don't check for empty ships in sectors, and the density isn't high enough to really worry about it if there's only 1 fig and a ship.

Another explaination is that there was a 1 way sector into that bubble but the course length to that one way sector is greater than the maximum course length. If that is the case, most bubble finders won't calculate it as a back door to that bubble.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
From what Dr Doog says, he was pretty thorough in checking out those sectors, though of course it's possible something slipped by. Your other suggestion, that there's a backdoor with a course that's longer than the maximum course length, I think that's are very reasonable explanation. Bigbang guarantees that every sector can reach every other sector within the specified course length, but once you set some avoids, you can certainly end up with course lengths that are greater than this maximum length. It might be interesting to examine this map to see if a backdoor can be found with an unlimited course length.

Of course, I'm still curious about the fact that a fighter was missing from a sector without an event recording its demise. If that's true, that's very odd. Even if a backdoor existed, there would be an event reported by the fighter as it was attacked by the intruder.
Author:  Legion [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
For Lords sake people WHY does everyone have to make the simplest situations so complex?


Any decent player knows that when there are only 2 large bubbles in a game (and one is significantly larger then the other) a corp is going to try for it.

Hide on port when needed & xport when needed.

Doesnt matter how many times or scripts he used to check for fighters.
He's not gonna see me.

that was it
the BIG cheating/tedit scandle
whittled down to just how Easy it was.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
I hope that's true. Would save me a lot of work trying to track down some phantom bug ;) But I'm still curious about the loss of that fighter...
Author:  Farley [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
John Pritchett wrote:
I hope that's true. Would save me a lot of work trying to track down some phantom bug ;) But I'm still curious about the loss of that fighter...



Sounds to me like it was killed, and this happened when Legion lifted off the port...lol I believe he is fessing up to being the one that did it, and explained exactly how it was done.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
In that case, would there not have been a message in the logs? And even if there should have been, it's possible it was overlooked or the victim of a bug. A missed fig message is a much less severe bug than some way to blind-warp into a base. I'm glad there is a reasonable explanation for this.
Author:  T0yman [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
John Pritchett wrote:
In that case, would there not have been a message in the logs? And even if there should have been, it's possible it was overlooked or the victim of a bug.


If they are playing gridwars then it is possible that one fell through the crack and got missed. I know scrolling through 500+ fig hits in a day gets tiring unless your running a script to check them against a DB of the bubble.
Author:  Promethius [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
Legion wrote:
For Lords sake people WHY does everyone have to make the simplest situations so complex?


Any decent player knows that when there are only 2 large bubbles in a game (and one is significantly larger then the other) a corp is going to try for it.

Hide on port when needed & xport when needed.

Doesnt matter how many times or scripts he used to check for fighters.
He's not gonna see me.

that was it
the BIG cheating/tedit scandle
whittled down to just how Easy it was.


Hat's off to you Legion, excellent move and one I would not have anticipated. Looks like I am as guilty as anyone on jumping to conclusions on something that "can't possibly be done". BBQ sauce makes crow go down easier. ;)
Author:  Farley [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Concerning Micro and cheating...
I know u and me aint buds Leigon, but cudos are due where they are due.. High five man!
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