www.ClassicTW.com
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/

Programing languages - which to focus on?
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=32034		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Programing languages - which to focus on?
Well, it's official, I'm a freshman again! LOL Must revist freshman English comp and Intermediate Algebra... sigh...

Spring term (begins Jan, 13th) is when the fun begins and I start the computer programing classes.

Just courious, for those of you in this field now. What languages are most important to focus on today? I.E. which are the most marketable?
Author:  Singularity [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
Cruncher wrote:
Just courious, for those of you in this field now. What languages are most important to focus on today? I.E. which are the most marketable?


They're only marketable if you're really good at them. You won't get a job in programming because of school, you have to pivot that into projects first. Get involved in open source stuff that needs your help, and after contributing you'll have a list of things you can point to.

Java is probably the biggest language. C# next biggest. Then anything .NET. Then C++. Then web languages like Ruby, Python and PHP.
Author:  Mind Dagger [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
Java is a great language if you are new to computer languages. Also, like Sing said, it's one of the most used ones out there.

MD
Author:  Cruncher [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
OK good to know.

The program at my local college is going to cover XHTML, XML, JavaScript, .Net, ASP.NET, and SQL Server Database.

That's just for the 2 year degree.

If I need to, I can take Phoenix online to focus in on the languages most functional in today's programing. I want to concentrate on business programing specifically, and maybe learn how to write a couple of iPhone apps for fun. :)
Author:  Micro [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
Mind Dagger wrote:
Java is a great language if you are new to computer languages. Also, like Sing said, it's one of the most used ones out there.

MD

I hate Java.... but it is can run on a wide variety of platforms.

C# is the primary language I use.
Author:  Mongoose [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
TWX script. Big money in that. :lol:

Java is easy to gain a deep knowledge of because of Javadoc. Study the Javadoc of the standard API, and use Javadoc in any code you write.

The downside is that Java was taught badly for many years. My ex took a class at GA Tech around ten years ago titled "Introduction to programming using Java" which would have been better titled "Introduction to Java programming" or even "Stupid Java tricks." But it's a great language, and you don't sacrifice anything by choosing it for application development.
I also feel like Java almost died because of its reputation for being slow (which was well-deserved in the Java 1.1/1.2 days.) But it's apparently huge in India now, and India is about to eclipse the US in technological productivity, if it hasn't already. There's also a JDK for Android, which could be pretty lucrative.
Author:  Micro [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
I still haven't seen anything in Java that I would call fast.
Author:  Mongoose [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
For most purposes, any difference in performance between Java and, say, C++ is totally imperceptible. Huge apps like LibreOffice and the Eclipse IDE are written at least partly in Java, and they're not any slower than their counterparts written in native code.

Premature optimization is a terrible habit that afflicts programmers who have knowledge of low-level languages. It's rare that an application developer needs to worry about speed; correctness is far more important. And the really important way in which Java is faster than most other languages is in learning and development time.
Author:  Mind Dagger [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
It seems like a good language to start with because you can easily teach procedural and object oriented coding practices, one before the other. I don't think it's the language I would want to live with every day, but it is great for teaching coding principles, I think.

MD
Author:  Singularity [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
Cruncher wrote:
The program at my local college is going to cover XHTML, XML, JavaScript, .Net, ASP.NET, and SQL Server Database.

That's just for the 2 year degree.

If I need to, I can take Phoenix online to focus in on the languages most functional in today's programing. I want to concentrate on business programing specifically, and maybe learn how to write a couple of iPhone apps for fun. :)


XHTML is not a programming language, it is a markup language. XML is not a programming language, it's a data syntax. JavaScript is a browser-only language, and only useful if you want to specialize in web UI.

.NET is not a language, it's a common object runtime. You compile other languages (like C#, VB.NET, etc) into object code for that runtime. ASP.NET is ASP, a server-side web programming language, built for dot-NET. SQL is not a programming language, it's a rough query syntax standard.

I know a few ppl who went thru UoP's AA in programming. It does not teach any of these. It has 2 web-related classes, a psuedocode class (laughably called algorithms), a basic C++ and a basic Java class. Iphone apps would not be a bad way to dip your toes into the market, however. Develop a handful of those and you use them on your resume.
Author:  Singularity [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
MicroBlaster wrote:
I still haven't seen anything in Java that I would call fast.


The included objects aren't slow. They aren't as fast as native code, but you can compile java into a native-esq code that's a lot faster. The big thing with java is all the OOP layering. That's not so much speed as it is memory, java is a memory hog in a big bad way because of all the stack traces.

And yea, premature optimization is a bad habit for ppl not used to java's way of handling things. You really need to do stuff "the java way" to get the best results. Java is taught horribly.
Author:  Cruncher [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
Singularity wrote:
XHTML is not a programming language, it is a markup language. XML is not a programming language, it's a data syntax. JavaScript is a browser-only language, and only useful if you want to specialize in web UI.

.NET is not a language, it's a common object runtime. You compile other languages (like C#, VB.NET, etc) into object code for that runtime. ASP.NET is ASP, a server-side web programming language, built for dot-NET. SQL is not a programming language, it's a rough query syntax standard.

I know a few ppl who went thru UoP's AA in programming. It does not teach any of these. It has 2 web-related classes, a psuedocode class (laughably called algorithms), a basic C++ and a basic Java class. Iphone apps would not be a bad way to dip your toes into the market, however. Develop a handful of those and you use them on your resume.


Thanks Sing. So, other than the school of hard knocks, how does one go about learning programing today? I don't think my html or REXX skills are going to take me far. LOL
Author:  Singularity [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
Cruncher wrote:
Thanks Sing. So, other than the school of hard knocks, how does one go about learning programing today? I don't think my html or REXX skills are going to take me far. LOL


Every programmer I know that's actually been good at the art started by just sitting down and writing code. I've never met anyone that actually "learned" how to program in school and ended up as a programmer. A degree is useful for job security as the idiots in HR are easily impressed by shiny parchment, but colleges these days don't teach much in the way of actual skills until you get into the master's level (with some exceptions in very technical programs).

If you want to learn Java, just download netbeans and start writing code and reading tutorials. If you want to learn C, get Visual Studio from dreamspark (free with .edu email) or a VC/VB express from MS (free for everyone) and start reading tutorials and writing code. Subscribe to programmer forums and take an interest in algorithms.
Author:  Cruncher [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
Singularity wrote:
Every programmer I know that's actually been good at the art started by just sitting down and writing code. I've never met anyone that actually "learned" how to program in school and ended up as a programmer. A degree is useful for job security as the idiots in HR are easily impressed by shiny parchment, but colleges these days don't teach much in the way of actual skills until you get into the master's level (with some exceptions in very technical programs).

If you want to learn Java, just download netbeans and start writing code and reading tutorials. If you want to learn C, get Visual Studio from dreamspark (free with .edu email) or a VC/VB express from MS (free for everyone) and start reading tutorials and writing code. Subscribe to programmer forums and take an interest in algorithms.


My interests lie less in the art, purely modivated by the sloppiness of programs today. Since many of my clients see me as a person who may know more about computers than they do, when something goes wrong they turn to me for answers.

Here's a simple example of what's so frustrating. QuickBooks is notorious for sending updates out too fast, before they've been tested. Now, I'm not so naive to think that all technology consumers are to some extent beta testers, they cannot possibly test every aspect before releasing a product. Last update screwed up how QuickBooks uses the PDF converter for Adobe Reader. I have two machines, both running WinXP Pro, both running the same versions of QuickBooks. One machine I had to take Adobe reader back to v8.x while the other still works fine using 10.x. Why? That's just this week's issue that wastes time.

I'm becoming less and less productive because someone's update screwed around with another program that's integrated. They integrate these these programs to save time, money (theirs) and promote them as "features".

It makes sence that they now are promoting more and more about taking programs to "the cloud", and I'm thinking it's so they can control the environment. If I had a nickle for every time someone told me that QuickBooks was "broken" when in reality it was anther issue entirely, I'd be a rich woman right now.

So I guess my interests lie more in project director, but I first need to understand programing languages and the challenges of producing a superior product instead of rushing something out the door to make a buck. Maybe I'll head the team who writes the next Bookkeeping program that takes down QuickBooks? Anything is possible...
Author:  Master Blaster [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Programing languages - which to focus on?
LOL, Quickbooks? Really? Me thinks you need to take smaller baby steps. That's like talking about becoming a pilot today and jumping into the Shuttle tomorrow for a trip to Mars
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/