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New game access feature open for testing
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=31901		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  John Pritchett [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  New game access feature open for testing
Ok, I just finished the initial design pass for a new feature that allows gameops to limit access to games. I've opened a test game on the beta server, twgs.classictw.com. It's game J, "Test Game Access" if you'd like to help me put it through its paces.

The currently supported access modes are

a) Multiplayer
b) Single player
c) Single corp
d) Closed

So anyone can enter a game in multiplayer mode. Only one player at a time in single player mode. Only one corp at a time in Corp mode (need to work on handling corp changes during this mode). Nobody (except an Observer who can access all modes) can enter a closed game.

I've added a scheduler in TEDIT so gameops can create multiple access modes throughout the day (but only on a day cycle). Up to 10 different modes are supported. In the test game, I created a bunch of short access modes so we can test entering and exiting with various access modes, as well as transitions from one mode to another.

When transitioning to a more limited mode, for example from multiplayer to single player, if more than one player is online that would qualify for access to the new mode, then the player who has been online the longest is allowed to remain while all others are booted.

Well, there was a lot to think about for this new feature, so I'm sure there will be kinks, and lots of suggestions on how best to handle it. Please try it out and help me get this feature ready for release.
Author:  Singularity [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
Oh that sounds awesome. So we can go from multiplayer to closed on a schedule?
Author:  John Pritchett [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
Yes. I tried to kill two birds with one stone here, since there was a request for being able to close games for periods of the day. You can actually check out the editor in one of your test games to see how the scheduler works and give me feedback if you'd like.

I can think of some interesting ways to use this. Obviously it's not a bad idea to close a game around Extern time. But also you could have single player most of the day, but open the game for multiplayer PvP for a few hours in the evening, closing at midnight for extern, then either back to single player or a period of multiplayer following extern, then repeat.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
Something that needs addressing is Corp time limits in Single Corp access mode. It's assumed that a gameop will have short enough time limits in single player mode to allow people a decent chance of playing their turns in a day. But in Single Corp mode, you could easily spread 4 or 5 player's time limit out in order to block others from playing. This mode is really intended to be a static-corp mode, and I think the time limit should be a Corp-based limit rather than a player-based limit. This is a feature I'd like to support in general.

What I'm thinking is that whenever a member of a Corp logs in for the day, time starts ticking for that Corp. Anytime any member of that Corp is online, Corp time is ticking. So even if you personally have plenty of time remaining, the Corp time might run out. You'd either need to drop from the Corp to play the rest of your time, or exit the game. Another setting that would go hand-in-hand with this would be a limit on quitting and joining a Corp. Maybe if you quit a Corp, you can't join a Corp for 2 days or something like that. Something to make Corps a more static entity.

Of course, in Single Corp Access mode, if you leave your Corp, you'll be dropped from the game. That's not implemented, but seems to make sense for that mode.
Author:  Singularity [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
If you're going to work on time limits, it might be good to have multiple layers of them: Corp, player, and per-login.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
Explain the per-login limit?

I think a simple way to implement a static-corp option would be to implement these rules:

1) If you join (or create) a Corp, you can't quit.
2) If you are booted from a Corp, you can't rejoin it

I know that would impact some strategies, but it would provide greater stability for this special co-op Single Corp mode where the Corp really needs to be a static entity.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
I'm thinking about whether or not there needs to be some kind of requirement of Corp time limits and static corps in order to use Single Corp access. Though I think these options might work well with that access mode, I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Back when the game was single-player only (v2 and prior), players could always create corps and spread their time out as much as possible. Today, at least it's a tactical decision as to whether you can best spend your time cooperating as a Corp or blocking others from entering. And a gameop really has to target these games for a smaller audience so everyone has a chance to play. Maybe 3 corps of 5 players each. That's 15 players max, and at 1.5 hours per player, everyone is guaranteed a chance to play. As we see in game A on classictw.com, these smaller games can be a blast. So I think this is reasonable.

But if you wanted to support, say, 5 corporations and guarantee that all 5 could play throughout the day, there would need to be a Corp time limit of, say, 2 hours and static corps. That would mean players would spread 10 hours of play over a 24 hour period. I think that would work well. It's tricky to get everyone together, but of course bots would improve that situation.
Author:  Singularity [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
John Pritchett wrote:
Explain the per-login limit?


Lets say I want single player access. Lets say I want a 3
hour time limit so people can cash. But that causes a
problem if there's more than 8 ppl in the game. But w/ a
per-login TL of 60 minutes, and then say a 5 minute
"cooling off" period, others would have a chance to log
in and no single player... no matter how big their TL,
could hog it.

John Pritchett wrote:
1) If you join (or create) a Corp, you can't quit.
2) If you are booted from a Corp, you can't rejoin it


That introduces some very serious problems with players
that leave the game. It also gives ppl a reason to get
booted, then bring in an alias.

If you are going to add that feature, make sure it's only
tied to corp-wide TL games. I wouldn't make it "never
able to rejoin" either, but rather make a customizable
amount of time, specified in days. A rejoin limit of 2 days
would be more than enough to make drops unfeasible.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
Singularity wrote:
Lets say I want single player access. Lets say I want a 3
hour time limit so people can cash. But that causes a
problem if there's more than 8 ppl in the game. But w/ a
per-login TL of 60 minutes, and then say a 5 minute
"cooling off" period, others would have a chance to log
in and no single player... no matter how big their TL,
could hog it.


I like that.

Singularity wrote:
That introduces some very serious problems with players
that leave the game. It also gives ppl a reason to get
booted, then bring in an alias.


If a player leaves the game, boot him. Now, if the player is CEO, that's tricky... But everyone can just leave and start a new corp, right?

Not sure what you meant by the second point. What benefit would there be to getting booted and bringing in an alias?

Quote:
If you are going to add that feature, make sure it's only
tied to corp-wide TL games. I wouldn't make it "never
able to rejoin" either, but rather make a customizable
amount of time, specified in days. A rejoin limit of 2 days
would be more than enough to make drops unfeasible.


Good point. Just trying to keep it simple, but I'd agree with that.
Author:  Singularity [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
John Pritchett wrote:
If a player leaves the game, boot him. Now, if the player is CEO, that's tricky... But everyone can just leave and start a new corp, right?


Right, that means there's a hole where people can leave and then rejoin as an alias. That's what I meant.

Instead of inspiring that kind of behavior, a "cooling off" period would allow people to rejoin w/o bringing in an alias if they wanted. They still could use an alias, but the constant joining/dropping/joining/dropping would be a dead giveaway in the logs.

This also gives the sysop a chance to control this behavior should it spawn some unintended consequences.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
Ok, gotcha.

You would lose continuity with your main character. You couldn't just drop, play non-corp for awhile, then rejoin. Once you drop, the only way to rejoin would be through a new alias. What you're describing would be a dupe cheat, which is already a major issue. If someone's going to dupe, there are a lot of things they can do to break the game.
Author:  Singularity [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
John Pritchett wrote:
You would lose continuity with your main character. You couldn't just drop, play non-corp for awhile, then rejoin. Once you drop, the only way to rejoin would be through a new alias. What you're describing would be a dupe cheat, which is already a major issue. If someone's going to dupe, there are a lot of things they can do to break the game.


Yeh, but duping is one of those "by necessity" things. It happens when ppl are put under pressure. We can sort of alleviate that by letting people rejoin after a few days. It just allows for accidents and stuff to be handled better, as it's fairly easy to kick someone off a corp accidentally. I just don't like the idea of something being permanent.

The game will basically have to keep a list of every player who has ever been on every corp, and their user number, so that someone couldn't just cycle the list or change their name to get back on.

As an aside... it would be nice if the last IP address that someone used was in the t-edit screen with the player. Right now, finding IP dupes is a bit of a chore via the logs. But if you keep a list of the last IP, or last 5 IPs, or something like that, it would make it a lot easier. Along with that, it'd be nice to have a "check for duplicate IPs" feature in TW, or simply prevent people from registering a 2nd account with an already used IP as an option.
Author:  Promethius [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
How much warning time is given when players will be booted when switching from multiplayer to say single player mode?
Author:  John Pritchett [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
Singularity wrote:
As an aside... it would be nice if the last IP address that someone used was in the t-edit screen with the player. Right now, finding IP dupes is a bit of a chore via the logs. But if you keep a list of the last IP, or last 5 IPs, or something like that, it would make it a lot easier. Along with that, it'd be nice to have a "check for duplicate IPs" feature in TW, or simply prevent people from registering a 2nd account with an already used IP as an option.


That would be pretty easy to do. TW already has IP on record, so it's just a matter of saving it out somewhere.

Prom, warnings are given at 5 minutes, 4, 3, 2 and 1 minute.
Author:  Micro [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New game access feature open for testing
I was just writing a Microbot script, and I got hit by the calls per day limit on a BBS. So now I have to wait until tomorrow to log back in and continue troubleshooting the script.

I think this would be a good feature to add to these games. It would limit monitoring as players would only be able to enter a game x times per day.

I think it would also be a good idea to be able to set the number of players allowed in at a time. TW2002 3.x added Multiplayer capabilities, but phone lines were expensive. Most BBSs had 1-8 phones lines, which allowed more than one player, but you still had to keep re-dialing until you got in.
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