This is an email I sent to the Sysop at ICE-9 about 7 and a half hours ago. I have yet to receive a response, and at this point I really don't expect one.

I would have posted in the "bug" section, but I know the post would be quickly kicked out, because a ship buy out is not a bug.


The "one player" I am refering to is "%" in Game I, who, I am told is "Kewl Breeze" on this board. V'ger was literally ready to take the game down (and did for a time) and re-bang because of that one complaint.

So, I wanted to find out, who agrees with me, that if it has a tedit setting, it is a feature?

Who agrees with V'ger, that ship buy outs are a bug?

I admit, I may have been a little harsh in my email, but he basically accused me of cheating.

In a related note, the Glossary (B) in the Trade Wars 2002 Manual here has this to say on the subject:

Ship and/or planet buyouts are not bug use as you have indicated. Regarding the programmer's intention, I doubt if he/she intended for buyouts to occur, and possibly included that message to alert players when the condition was reached through normal game play. I don't know the intention, but just guessing based on the games that were in effect when first created.

Some servers have rules against buyouts posted somewhere if you can find it. I don't know about Ice9 since I haven't played there in a very long time.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Yup it’s me I am playing in a BULDER game under the alias %. So as GD seems to be confuse on more then one point but really only stuck on 1 issue here it is…

In a Builder game that has the intent to be perpetual that anyone can join at any time with lot’s of different levels of players form the nooby level I got on my team that I have encouraged to get twx and swath and I’m teaching to use them in combination of each other all the way to player’s like me, toy and T.R. Edwards.

So what’s the points:
doing the buyout…to stop people form playing.. My question now is why… why lock people out of a nooby builder game… you seem confused on the point to that game.

The complaint I made was to Toy man actually not to the sysop…. As I was capping aliens and the ships would CBY instead of cap because you guys had 1600 merf’s. I sent a message to the sysop on the screen cap of the cby from the alien.. Think that might be the “bug” he is referring to. A short time later Toyman your CEO told me that your doing a buyout and that causes the aliens to not be able to assign a ship # and they just blow up making them uncapable..

So now whats the Issue? Is it that the sysop told you NO buyouts are not allowed in that game… The game that is intended to let anyone and everyone start when ever at the most trivial level of TW playing…

Or is it really what ever descriptions he gave it. Bug or not who cares. He said he didn’t want it in THAT game… I personal agree it shouldn't be used in that game, it’s a low level no skill cheep tactic that is meant to lock people out of a game and no I don’t disagree with it being used in kill em all games as me and other kraaken players have stated in the past if the game allows it then it not cheating…but I will repeat my self that it is a low level tactic used buy the unskilled players so not cheating just shady.

Is it a bug that you can buy all the ships…nope don’t think so.
Is it a bug that the Aliens CBY from it… that I would say is. Considering the aliens are in the game warping around…how can they not have a ship assigned.

Building games
Before getting into some of the specific guidelines of the building games let me say up front, the point of each of these rules is to allow players, new to the game or not, the ability to join a game at any time and get started. If you are the type of person who intends to read these rules and find every crack in them that can be exploited then Don't bother, I will ask you to go to the unregulated games, after all we both know that's were you belong in the first place.

No Stardock or Fedspace blockades. A blockade occurs when anything is used to inhibit the free flow of traffic to and from SD or Terra. Anything more than one toll fig put there as a warp beacon is a blockade. For example, one toll fig used as a trigger *next to SD for any offensive purpose is a blockade. Sitting at SD and using attack scripts as players warp in and out is a blockade. Sitting at SD and using photon scripts is a blockade. Do not blow up SD or the Class O ports. This is not to say that your opponents that are not Fedsafe are free to use Fedspace as a Safe Haven and sit there all day either. Use common sense.

Do not use fighters as a method of controlling the universe. Setting up fig grids and using attack scripts as an offensive or defensive weapon is a great tactic for the unregulated games but not the building games. I'm not saying you can't mark ports, or leave figs in various places, but again this is a building game, just don't leave them everywhere. Go find a tunnel or a set of sectors and build in it. For those of you wishing a hard and fast number, a single corp may not control more than 2.5% of a universe's grid. This means for a 20k game, no more than 500, for a 10k, no more than 250, etc.

Allow players a chance to join the game. Many players would like me to be more specific on this point but I really Don't want to turn into a baby sitter. If a player joins the game and starts killing anything he can find of yours to kill, explain to him that your going to have to kill him if he keeps it up, then if he does, kill him. If he is willing to be respectful let him play. Simple so far. If you come across someone who's is just getting their sector started and you have been playing for weeks and can easily take it, give him a break. Go find someone that's more of a challenge. Try to help new players who Don't really know the game. You would be surprised how rewarding this can be.


Allow players/Corps to get established in the game. The should be allowed 4 weeks to get their base going. This is not to say they have a 4 week protection period to run around and invade other players, Any corp/Player who attempts to invade an established Corp/Player forfits any protection afforded him by this rule. Any Corp/Player who invades a corp under the 30 day grace perioid may be locked out of the game or asked to make retribution.

If you agree with the ideals of this game, take offense when someone kills new players for no particular reason except that they could. In reality I can post all the rules in the world but its the community that makes it happen. If the new player does get squashed but does not quit, help him back on his feet if you can preferably without just giving him assets. If he is actually a new player who has never played, help him learn. Build the community at the same time as you build your game. As so many people have pointed out Trade Wars 2002 includes the word War in the title. No one is telling you you can't attack other players or invade their planets and tunnels. Just try to keep it to the players who are somewhat established in the game and a match for you, that's all. And lastly, for those of you who have heard the term "Don't Poke The Bear," well, if you bother a Bear, he will eat you. If you bother someone much bigger than you in TW, they will eat you too.

I find it an exploit to the game. I also don't see it any different in a "Building Game" than using "Alien Cashing" since I know the Sysop did not intend for that either. So are we guilty of a buyout? yea, but we did it for 1 primary reason and a few secondary.
Primary was to stop Alien Cashing... it is a "Building Game" you know you BUILD planets and farm product to make cash to purchase figs and defend your area.

Snippet From Ice9:
Allow players a chance to join the game. Many players would like me to be more specific on this point.

As explained to me over the years from many conversations with V'Ger that statement has to do with allowing Players the ability to build planets and get established in the game before showing at their doorstep and annihilating them. Nothing was ever mentioned about not allowing in the game. I played several games at Ice9 where a ship buyout had occurred prior to V'Ger taking it over. Takes a little effort but you can get in the game not really that hard. KB and crew were up set about not being able to use the Cashing Exploit from a miscalculation from the Sysop.

Another Snippet Ice9:
I really Don't want to turn into a baby sitter.

Based on that we took matters into our own hands.

Now the Real Part: We used 7000 turns and 75M to play this game to get our point across. Buyout lasted less than 1 hour, KB found it amusing until he noticed why we did it then went running to V'Ger protesting for a rebang. I and my corp had already informed V'Ger that we would remove the ships. So a rebang is necessary because corp lacks the ability to cash in a building game buy "BUILDING" ?


So you agree it should be used.


Not in this case it was to lock one out for a day but our intent was to stop Alien Cashing.


LOL

The Buyout was removed within 15 minutes of the game reopening, and if the sysop does not want a BuyOut then he should add no corp can own more than XXX ships, XXX Planets. Since buy the rules of the game 2.5 corps could own all the planets. We are allowed 500 figged sectors and that could be 2500 planets (game holds 6000). So when that happens if the game ran long enough I supposed that corps will be ask to give up planets since there are none left?

We got busted for a buyout..... you cried cuz you lost alien cashing.... whoopy all a moot point. We fixed ours and V'Ger returned the over priced IWD so people can Alien Cash. Time to move on.

I believe JP is addressing this issue now, ship buy-outs will no longer be a viable game strategy.

Just my humble opinion, and we all know how much you enjoy reading my posts, but back in the day 2000 ships seems like an impossible goal to reach giving that games were then played on 5k universes with stock ships and planets. Not impossible, just improbable.

Seeing how the edits in today’s games allow for much higher accumulation of assets I believe that bar is going to be raised again to an improbably level, not impossible. So while ship buyouts are not a bug, they are just much easier to accomplish now than they once were.

sorry, seems my post repeated. Can't deleat.

Your Avatar is giving me a mental-hernia... The left-side of my brain thinks it's a conical shape with a head cut-out, and the right-side of my brain is telling me the Avatar is in the shape of an Arrowhead with no point to it. Or am I crazy?

Btw. Only way to 'fix' the buyout problem is to limit the number of ships/planets a corp can own at any given time. So, no single corp can lock out anyone. I'd suggest: 100 Ships, 200 Planets; per Corp. Just a thought

Yea but since a building game typically allows for 500 sectors figged I could own 2500 planets based on available sectors. But I would have no problem with a limit of 200 it would surely make managing them easier

@SG - Probably best if it was moved to smack

Dude its a Noob game for returning players.
It is meant to stalemate.
Don't lock players out please.
If Alien Cashing is too profitable then alert the sysop
and take fusion drives off the alien ships and/or lower the prices.
Unless the sysop Wants Alien Cashing I don't know what the intent was
Other than what is stated in rules.

Deleted my post .... this is BS from the word go.... DELETED!

My intent was not to start a flame war. It was not to attack KB, or anyone else. If everybody thinks that this should be moved to smack talk, I'm fine with that. I wanted to have a thoughtful discussion, which is why I posted here instead of there to begin with.
I really just want to hear everybody's side of the story.

To boil it all down:
Are we jerks for running a ship buy out? YES
Is running a ship buyout a bug? NO

It is not against the stated rules of the ICE 9 building game. I know that on the rules page, V'ger says that "I reserve the right to make the final judgment on what is or is not a bug."

My message to V'ger: If you don't like the strategy, MAKE IT AGAINST THE RULES! Just saying "It's a bug" about everything you don't like is WRONG.