I was hoping to get different prospectives on the Photon Torpedo Setting(s)...What im intrested in are thoughts and ideas of the use of ptorps in regards to Gridding and in regards to killing and in regards to how fun it does or does not make a game.Would a Game be more fun if ptorps were off for the first 2 weeks of a 4 week game??? What about multi photon firing setting? Several traders mentioned not being able to "move" in the game with out getting ptorped...this has a lot to do with the fact Planets have no move delay. I am working on a new game to precede HHT (so that i can test other settings/theroies). Any input in regards to this setting would be highly appreciated.

As Always...In Your Debt

Space Ghost

2 weeks? zGah! Game wouldn't last 1 week w/o torps, you'd get overran by charging
gridders, overrun the enemy, or possibly both. There is absolutely no way to stop
a gridder w/o torps until you get a mobile planet, then just move to single-hop hits
and now they have to shell out for a complete limpet grid just to defend their assets.

It's easy to move in a game w/o getting torped, ya just gotta learn how. BG4 we had
12k sectors, so don't tell me you can't move in a game w/ torps. Has very little to
do w/ planets having no move delay, that's a cop-out excuse. There's a natural ftr
hit msg delay and obviously lag. Has to do with people being clueless and unable to
manage their turns... or just unwilling to.

Give me a game w/o torps, I'll corp w/ alex, stock, sam and loc... we'll have the
game done 3 days. Count on it.

quote:Originally posted by Singularity

2 weeks? zGah! Game wouldn't last 1 week w/o torps, you'd get overran by charging
gridders, overrun the enemy, or possibly both. There is absolutely no way to stop
a gridder w/o torps until you get a mobile planet, then just move to single-hop hits
and now they have to shell out for a complete limpet grid just to defend their assets.

It's easy to move in a game w/o getting torped, ya just gotta learn how. BG4 we had
12k sectors, so don't tell me you can't move in a game w/ torps. Has very little to
do w/ planets having no move delay, that's a cop-out excuse. There's a natural ftr
hit msg delay and obviously lag. Has to do with people being clueless and unable to
manage their turns... or just unwilling to.

Give me a game w/o torps, I'll corp w/ alex, stock, sam and loc... we'll have the
game done 3 days. Count on it.


So your telling me there are no eidts or gamestyle that could work with no ptorps?
I find it extremly hard to believe that the game has an option to turn off and on the ptorps but that the game is completly unplayable with out them turned on.....Seems...strange...
Also i guess since you said it ,,your saying in a 800 turn game in a 20k sector universe with starting Shielded planets you could have the gme done in 3 days??? with out advanced planets you could do it in 3 days???
Do you need those specific corpies to accomplish this task?? Could most people accomplish this?? I'm very intrigued by your claims..Its hard for me to believe you can turn off ptorps and completly ruin a game from the begining.

set the torp duration to 60 seconds. still allows torps. but if they miss you, you got 60 seconds to throw an anti-grid party. with good scripts, the extra duration during invasions doesn't really matter that much anyway.

60 seconds. Hehe. So all I gotta do is hit-twarp off and then grid for 55 seconds? Doesn't seem much better. Be easy to script that too... get log data, hit, twarp off. Check logs and start gridder if cool.

SG, the no torps option (in turn games) is for games w/o competitive scripters. It's for slow builder games where everyone just wants to sit around admiring their sparkling collection of planets. That's fine for some, but not really good for a tourny. With standard mobile times you've got no chance to stop a team of gridders, the game entirely rests on hunting and a little data mining. Starting w/ lv5 changes that a bit, you can't stop smart gridders but you really don't need to either. You can always just counter-grid and use runaway. That game will stalemate when nobody can successfully lock out anybody else. Zzzz.

Instead of trying to make games as boring as possible why don't we make them funner? People will grid. People will get podded. People will get #SD#. People will get torped. Bad things happen, it's when they happen to other people that they become fun. And it's when they happen completely and decisively to other people that you win. My goal in a game is to make as many bad things happen as possible to the other team(s), reducing the number of possible bad things just makes that game suck. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you... that's just the price of it all.

As for specific corpies... eh. Some players are known for their gridding. Those are the ones I'd want to play with, obviously.

I always have trouble gridding and Pdrops.
I can never type fast enough and someone drops a planet on me, or I cannot type fast enough to put in the sector to drop the planet.
What do I do?
But seriously,
I think in a turn game (yes I do play, you just dont know it) you need some kind. The 60 sec idea was good, but maybe make it 20-30.

quote:Originally posted by Singularity

60 seconds. Hehe. So all I gotta do is hit-twarp off and then grid for 55 seconds? Doesn't seem much better. Be easy to script that too... get log data, hit, twarp off. Check logs and start gridder if cool.

SG, the no torps option (in turn games) is for games w/o competitive scripters. It's for slow builder games where everyone just wants to sit around admiring their sparkling collection of planets. That's fine for some, but not really good for a tourny. With standard mobile times you've got no chance to stop a team of gridders, the game entirely rests on hunting and a little data mining. Starting w/ lv5 changes that a bit, you can't stop smart gridders but you really don't need to either. You can always just counter-grid and use runaway. That game will stalemate when nobody can successfully lock out anybody else. Zzzz.

Well thats why i'm looking at different settings more then 1 person has said the game got boring near the end and several have brought up that their wasn't much action cuz people didnt move much in fear of being ptorped...

Instead of trying to make games as boring as possible why don't we make them funner? People will grid. People will get podded. People will get #SD#. People will get torped. Bad things happen, it's when they happen to other people that they become fun. And it's when they happen completely and decisively to other people that you win. My goal in a game is to make as many bad things happen as possible to the other team(s), reducing the number of possible bad things just makes that game suck. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you... that's just the price of it all.

Ya Sing you hit it on the spot!! I'm trying to make it more boring!!! give me a break man what im trying to do is make the game more fun for everyone not just the guy who has the "GREAT" ptorp script or the guy who has the "Awsome" gridding script..The game needs to be more fun for everyone not just the people who have the "special" scripts. Farming type games can be just as fun in a tournament (SEE USO) as other games...i believe uso had ptorps off the first week of the game...need to check on that though.. I'm amazed that you wouldn't want to try new things to make the game more fun..if we all keep playing with the same old settings over and over again whats the point of having tedit?



As for specific corpies... eh. Some players are known for their gridding. Those are the ones I'd want to play with, obviously.


I sure would like you to put ur money where your mouth is on the idea you could shut a game down in 3 days with out ptorps...when would you be available to back up your claims?

Space Ghost

LOL. SG challenging me to a DM?

I just did something similar afew days ago, except this one had torps it's just nobody was firing. I do it all the time. With standard build times to mobile there is nothing to stop anyone from overrunning you, or likewise with accelerated building times but nobody at keys to do runaway. Next time it happens I'll just let you know so you can see for yourself. Larger turn bases can be done in a single day (a few hours in the case of an unlim). Smaller turn bases and smaller corp sizes take a bit longer, but in a biggame-style game w/ 10 people on your corp... that is suprisingly malleable.

This is nothing new. There are dozens of players here that have done the same thing. Put together the above-mentioned corp tho and yes, I'll play.

Heh. Sounds like a party. When I quit my job (or start working from home) and dump my GF (and don't develop a porn habit from having no GF), I'll take you guys up on it.

60 seconds is extreme. In a 700 turn game, you could burn through your days turns in the time it took for a photon recharge. [:D] No good would come from that.

I was just offering up a compromise between not having any at all, and the standard 1-2 sec photons that I see everywhere else. 20 seconds is way more resonable. But I wanted to get people's attention.

If you wanted to keep peeps from doing planet drops, or adj photon, or whatever, then simply make all the planets hold 399 ore or less. Sure that means no more cannons and possibly no more beamers. So what? Modify the ship odds accordingly. [:D]

There are ways of gridding that are really, really safe, but they burn a lot of turns and are usually not done. However, if you loose 600 turns from a photon because you chose to grid in a more "turn efficient" way, them maybe you should reconsider your gridding strategy.

The game has always been weighted towards the aggressor. The defender must always react to the attacker, because the attacker ALWAYS gets to choose the time and place to hit next. If you think you can't grid against an active defense, then you aren't committed to gridding. As long as I can hit, kill, and lay a fig and xport out of my ship before you even see the fig hit message, I can grid on you. And I can get away with it, or at the very least make you eat lots of corbo. I don't find that level of play particularly enjoyable, nor do I have the time for it. However, I will tell you that if I did, there would be people screaming that they couldn't reliably stop me. On the other hand, I can't reliably stop the enemy from gridding on me either, assuming they know what they are doing, and they are willing to commit the resources to it.

T... good general points.

Standard 2-ship gridding fails in a game where the gridder doesn't hold many limpets .
Drop adj and dtorp, real easy. Was tried in the last few games I played in and it never
lasted more than afew seconds. Even worse they didn't add a random delay, so in most
cases I just timed it and torped. Even cost someone an #SD# when their planet didn't get
to them in time. 2-ship twarp gridding could be interesting tho, provided there's a
decent enough xport range on the gridder ship. Be a bit turn costly, but could be fun to
write.

quote:Originally posted by Singularity

LOL. SG challenging me to a DM?

I just did something similar afew days ago, except this one had torps it's just nobody was firing. I do it all the time. With standard build times to mobile there is nothing to stop anyone from overrunning you, or likewise with accelerated building times but nobody at keys to do runaway. Next time it happens I'll just let you know so you can see for yourself. Larger turn bases can be done in a single day (a few hours in the case of an unlim). Smaller turn bases and smaller corp sizes take a bit longer, but in a biggame-style game w/ 10 people on your corp... that is suprisingly malleable.

This is nothing new. There are dozens of players here that have done the same thing. Put together the above-mentioned corp tho and yes, I'll play.



Ok cool I Accept your challenge.... I hope your not trying to have me put together your team...put together your own team...BUT I will put up a 20k universe with advanced planet settings and i promise not to use runaway...lets see if you can end it in 3 days or less...let me know who your corpies are and we can get started whenever your ready to start..

Space Ghost

Remember this was without ANY starting planets. And no, I'm not putting together a corp for it... I'm not the one trying to figure out why torpless edits go stale so quickly. Been down that road and it is not fun (not worth playing).

quote:2-ship twarp gridding could be interesting tho, provided there's a
decent enough xport range on the gridder ship. Be a bit turn costly, but could be fun to
write.
I think I wrote the first one of those, with input from K3, SupG, and EP. It was a hoot to watch, but then I figured out a better way of doing it, and scrapped it (I think it was BA that pointed out the flaw in the original logic. We had long talks about gridding).

Gridding is sorta like playing rock-paper-scissors. Bring the right grid script against the wrong photon script, and you have a field day. The reverse also applies. Being able to quickly analyize what the enemy is bringing against you is handy. Setting a trap up for them is priceless.

"ok, I'm on their planet..." good times!

Hmm... which brings the question, what is the flaw in the original logic?
Thinking hit, xport out, wait. Xport in, hit or twarp out. Is there a better way?

quote:Originally posted by Singularity

Remember this was without ANY starting planets. And no, I'm not putting together a corp for it... I'm not the one trying to figure out why torpless edits go stale so quickly. Been down that road and it is not fun (not worth playing).


so WITH starting planets that changes what your saying?? I'm not trying to do anything more then learn...please explain...