Well, here are my challenges in learning TradeWars... hoping to find suggestions on how someone overcomes these issues?

1. Death Delay - Well, every game but the one's I've created on my own server have death delay... which means after my 8 second survival after joining a new game.... I wait until tomorrow to get another 8 seconds. Makes it impossible to learn how to evade and survive. I don't mind being killed and losing everything so much as it happens so fast and frequently, I can't get anything out of the multiplayer aspect of the game.

2. Okay... eventually I found a "chill" game where I survived 2 days without being *SD*'d. That was thrilling!! But then I was found, decimated, and learned don't put all your eggs in one basket. Okay, good lesson.... but my question is: How the heck do you learn how to hunt/kill others?

3. Gridding... what is it, what's it good for, how do I do it, etc...?

4. Playing RED - Okay... I've red multiple descriptions of multiple ways reds do their cashing.... don't get it. Other than running World SSM... I have yet to fugure out how any of those Darn methods work. Which is best early vs late? How many are possible to do solo versus needed mutltiple players? Is there a way to play BOTH red and blue? Cause geez... red makes money faster... but blue seems to be the base-building king... so does it makes sense to be able to just switch align back and forth a few times/day? Or am I nuts? And if I don't have a blue, is there a furbing method I can use solo or maybe for an all-red corp that's "relativley" safe?

5. Well, if RED is pretty much cashing all day long... and blue is pretty much colonizing all day long... which align is best for hunting?

6. Getting to Stardock. Okay, this seems like a nice new game, let's join! No scanners... no real fighters... no problem! Let's go to stardock! Okay... move to sector 2... move to sector 324 BAM! Dead.... how the hell do I get to stardock (or out of fed space) when I join a new game? More often than not I die before I burn 20 turns!

7. Scripting... well, the most powerful ones are private... and geez are they doozies! Do I need to become a proficient scripter to be able to reasonably compete in a decent size game?

8. Gold aliens - Okay... in trying to learn just how to navigate the Darn game, learn how to use the scripts built in to TWX, and start to learn the basics of attacking ships I created my "Alien Infestation" game with is basically a heavily modified EDEN. Very heavily modified to include very powerful alien races... and even just alien hunting I've podded myself a ton. Why are so many people against having aliens in games? (especially if created to be as fast/powerful/agressive as possible with ship/fighter advantages?) Just curious really... cause my Alien Infestation game has been a hoot to learn a few basics on...

9. The NOOB Dilema.... so I create or find a noob game... problem is we're all noobs and still die in seconds when joining a game with established players. How the heck does one learn "Advanced Evasion and Survival"?

10. Okay... so I use Swath and TWX 2.03... paid for Swath, paid for TWGS and TW Gold.... and I can't even SDT.. or SSM... or SXP... or any other acronyms. But since I'm too dumb or impatient to learn how to haggle manually (not sure I want to), it's been a pretty sweet deal. But I can't find a script for either entitled "Run away, escape, and hide from evil people cause I'm too new and slow to escape/survive manually" that can run in the background... anyone have/find one yet? Cause that would be really helpful!!

11. How does one find a TW mentor?

12. Perma-Corps... do they take newbie idiots like me? Are they worth joining? Are there many that are still active?

13. Is the game player base growing, dying, or staying about the same do you think?

14. Blockades... any good way to get around them?

15. Eh... I'll save #15 for later...



NeonMoonX
neonmoonx.dynu.com:2002

quote:Originally posted by NeonMoonX

Well, here are my challenges in learning TradeWars... hoping to find suggestions on how someone overcomes these issues?

1. Death Delay - Well, every game but the one's I've created on my own server have death delay... which means after my 8 second survival after joining a new game.... I wait until tomorrow to get another 8 seconds. Makes it impossible to learn how to evade and survive. I don't mind being killed and losing everything so much as it happens so fast and frequently, I can't get anything out of the multiplayer aspect of the game.

Try playing newer games, less established game, and lower turn games. If you get into a low turn game on a smaller server the day that it opens, you're less likely to be killed so quickly.

quote:
2. Okay... eventually I found a "chill" game where I survived 2 days without being *SD*'d. That was thrilling!! But then I was found, decimated, and learned don't put all your eggs in one basket. Okay, good lesson.... but my question is: How the heck do you learn how to hunt/kill others?

Read all the information you can get, tw-cabal.com, the forums here, etc. When someone pods you, ask "how did you do that?" Practice, practice, practice. The basics of killing is simple. You see someone, you go and attack them. There are a lot of different methods. You can try to chase them down by hand, you can try to photon them with a script, etc. It just takes time and practice to get your reaction times fast enough to be successful.

quote:
3. Gridding... what is it, what's it good for, how do I do it, etc...?

Gridding is the process of leaving your fighters in multiple sectors of the universe. By laying a fig grid, you are marking certain areas of the universe as "yours." It increases the area that an enemy has to look in to find you. It decreased the area you have to look in to find the enemy. It gives you opportunities to kill the enemy. As to how you do it, that depends on the game. Basically, all you have to do is move through the universe and lay figs. Now, to be more effective you want to have some sort of pattern in which you lay them. Develop a list of target sectors (deadends, bubbles, 2-way warps) and work on gridding all of them. Find your enemy by a process of elimination. Of course, to be effective, you also have to survive. The easiest way to do this is to grid quickly When you kill a fighter, be on your way out of the sector immediatly, via a script or a macro. It will depend on your enemy as to how careful you have to be. As far as gridding scripts go, you can check out grimytrader.com for rammar's twarp gridder. It's a pretty good script.

quote:
4. Playing RED - Okay... I've red multiple descriptions of multiple ways reds do their cashing.... don't get it. Other than running World SSM... I have yet to fugure out how any of those Darn methods work. Which is best early vs late? How many are possible to do solo versus needed mutltiple players? Is there a way to play BOTH red and blue? Cause geez... red makes money faster... but blue seems to be the base-building king... so does it makes sense to be able to just switch align back and forth a few times/day? Or am I nuts? And if I don't have a blue, is there a furbing method I can use solo or maybe for an all-red corp that's "relativley" safe?


Red cashing is easiest to do with a partner, that way you can clear each other's busts. I think you're trying to run cashing scripts without understanding how cashing actually works. In a low turn game, you normally want to start out with sst. In this method, you sell equipment to a port, you steal it back, then you xport to another ship. The reason you do this is because you can't steal from the same port two times in a row. So you spend three turns (sell, steal, xport) for each port. You repeat until you bust at one of the ports, then you either have another red run until they bust at that port (which clears your bust) or you find another port to run at. SDT is a little more advanced and generally works better with 2 reds. In this method, you upgrade the port some to start. When you upgrade equipment, it puts more equipment on the port. You get it so there is around 2000 equipement on the port (do this for both ports) and then you steal the product from the port, dump it on a planet, xport to another ship (2 turns). You do this until the port is empty and all the equipment is on the planet. You then sell the equipment off of the planet and repeat. This saves you a bunch of turns, but costs more to set up (upgrade cost for the port). This is best to do with 2 players that way you don't have to upgrade more than 3 ports. You can just clear each other's busts.

You can't effectively play both red and blue at the same time. The cost of changing your alignment prohibits it.

As far as safe furbing as a red, you just have to be fast and macro everything at dock

quote:
5. Well, if RED is pretty much cashing all day long... and blue is pretty much colonizing all day long... which align is best for hunting?


In general, unless the planets are edited to make great figs, blues shouldn't be coloing all day, just enough for upgrades. In general, your blues hunt, your reds cash. However, you can hunt when red if that's what is needed.

quote:
6. Getting to Stardock. Okay, this seems like a nice new game, let's join! No scanners... no real fighters... no problem! Let's go to stardock! Okay... move to sector 2... move to sector 324 BAM! Dead.... how the hell do I get to stardock (or out of fed space) when I join a new game? More often than not I die before I burn 20 turns!


Find the main path to SD, void it, charge with an alternate path. Also, don't join a game that is so late that fed is blockaded.

quote:
7. Scripting... well, the most powerful ones are private... and geez are they doozies! Do I need to become a proficient scripter to be able to reasonably compete in a decent size game?

No. Check out grimytrader.com. There are plenty of good scripts there.

quote:
8. Gold aliens - Okay... in trying to learn just how to navigate the Darn game, learn how to use the scripts built in to TWX, and start to learn the basics of attacking ships I created my "Alien Infestation" game with is basically a heavily modified EDEN. Very heavily modified to include very powerful alien races... and even just alien hunting I've podded myself a ton. Why are so many people against having aliens in games? (especially if created to be as fast/powerful/agressive as possible with ship/fighter advantages?) Just curious really... cause my Alien Infestation game has been a hoot to learn a few basics on...


The problem I have with aliens is you can never beat them. No matter how many of them you kill, no matter how much you make, they just keep respawning and regenning figs. Also, they're stupid. They behave the same way all the time.

quote:
9. The NOOB Dilema.... so I create or find a noob game... problem is we're all noobs and still die in seconds when joining a game with established players. How the heck does one learn "Advanced Evasion and Survival"?


You have to venture out into games with good players and practice.

quote:
10. Okay... so I use Swath and TWX 2.03... paid for Swath, paid for TWGS and TW Gold.... and I can't even SDT.. or SSM... or SXP... or any other acronyms. But since I'm too dumb or impatient to learn how to haggle manually (not sure I want to), it's been a pretty sweet deal. But I can't find a script for either entitled "Run away, escape, and hide from evil people cause I'm too new and slow to escape/survive manually" that can run in the background... anyone have/find one yet? Cause that would be really helpful!!


heh, contrary to somewhat popular belief, there is no be all end all script out there. Sorry, you're going to have to actually learn how to play

quote:
11. How does one find a TW mentor?


Get out in games on well known servers, ask people, play things like Corp Wars.

quote:
12. Perma-Corps... do they take newbie idiots like me? Are they worth joining? Are there many that are still active?


It depends on the perma as to who they're willing to accept. I would suggest finding people you like to play with and just playing with them.

quote:
13. Is the game player base growing, dying, or staying about the same do you think?


Hard to tell. I think it's slowly diminishing.

quote:
14. Blockades... any good way to get around them?


Be fast (macro) and have enough figs.

quote:
15. Eh... I'll save #15 for later...


Oh come on, I was on a roll here

Edit: Grrr, K3 beat me to it, heh. We must have been typing our novels at the same time.

Whew, ok. I'll take these in order.....

1. What kind of games are you joining? If you go into a game thats a month old, expect to get nuked right off the bat. For unlim games, anything more than a couple hours old. In a regular turn game, if its only been going a day or 3, the corps generally aren't built up enough to kill you within seconds unless you do something really dumb.

2. Well, hunting/killing is part practice, part research, and part pestering. Goof off, play around and see what you can figure out on your own. Then go out and actively test your ideas, see what works and what doesn't. And of course (my favorite), ask the guy who just killed/invaded you how he did it. Most players are pretty friendly (and somewhat egotisitcal, lol), and will gladly give you details about how they just nuked you. Also, read EVERYTHING on http://www.tw-cabal.com

3. Gridding is laying figs in every sector you go to. A grid does about a billion things for you and is probably the most important corp asset. It lets you know where and when enemies are moving and gives you the chance to kill/photon them. It blocks enemy probes. And it also serves as a list of where you have already been so you can narrow down your searches when looking for enemy bases.

4. Which method is best depends a lot on game edits and your corp makeup. Generally speaking, your blues will PPT right off to get enough cash for your reds to bust up and do some SST. Once you have more xp and cash, things generally move onto SDT which is usually more profitable, againd depending on edits. If the game is MBBS, then once your planets go mobile, you switch over to megga robs. If its not MBBS, then you use RTR. For definitions and descriptions of all these tactics, see http://www.tw-cabal.com

5. Generally your blues will do the hunting, since their turns are less valuable. They also have the advantage of being able to go to safe scrub points after a gridding run, like SD or terra.

6. Again, check the age of the game before you just hop in. Also keep in mind that the direct path from Terra to dock is often littered with fig and/or mines, so try taking an indirect path.

7. OK, while there are plenty of private scripts, there are also a LOT of very powerful public scripts. Check out http://www.grimytrader.com. There are a lot of scripts there, some of them by the best scripters in the game. As to private scripts, some are better than the public ones, but some are actually worse. In any case, the performance increase between a good public and an excellent private script is often very slight. That tiny boost can make the difference in a competitive game, but often times is of no consequence. If you are interested in learning to script, there are some tutorials on (you guessed it!) http://www.tw-cabal.com. And if you get stuck on something, you can always post about it here, and plenty of people will jump in to help you solve the problem.

8. Well, I hate aliens for a LOT of reasons, but I'll only go into a few. They make a lot of the offensive and defensive scripts worthless or at least impair their effectiveness. They annoy you with constant fig hit spam. Sometimes those fig hits will even cause problems with the game, notably with the TWMAIL.DAT file. In some edits, they are a lazy alternative to actual red cashing. But mostly, I dislike them because they're not people. I don't want to play against an alien using a very very stupid AI. I play TW to play against other people, and even the greenest newbie is smarter than aliens. And before someone says it, no I don't consider aliens to be "good practice". Fighting aliens teaches and reinforces bad habits. Using alien killing tactics against a real player will get you killed in a heartbeat.

9. Well, you're playing in TCW so thats both a good way to learn survival tactics and to meet players who can teach you more. The way I learned was by getting killed a LOT. And I mean tons. Then I looked at what I did to get killed, and tried to do something different the next time. Sometimes I got killed again, sometimes I didn't and I eventually figured out what will work and what won't. You can't become a top player overnight, no matter how many scripts you have. But keep trying, keep dieing, and keep thinking about what you did wrong and what you could do differently next time.

10. No.

11. Just keep trying. Eventually one of those players who are constantly nuking you will take pity on you and recognize your perserverance. They'll start giving you tips on how to survive and play better, and oftentimes will let you corp with them to see firsthand how its done. TCW is also a great place to find a mentor, btw.

12. Generally permas are made up of experienced players who know each other and get along well. They know each other's personalities and playing styles, so its pretty unlikely one will pick up someone they don't know. Yes, they're worth joining. My perma is chock full of good players and good people. We're all friends and we all enjoy TW, so we have even more fun when we play together. Theres not too many active permas right now, but there seems to be some renewed interest in them lately, so they might be making a comeback.

13. Staying about the same I think. People retire, people join. Old players rediscover the game, and some new players don't have the grit to stick it out. We've had a lot of the top players retire lately, but I've also seen a lot of new players joining recently.

14. Yes, lots. Theres an article on them at http://www.tw-cabal.com

15. You do that

So, in conclusion. READ http://WWW.TW-CABAL.COM!! Stick around, suck it up, and ask questions. Everyone dies a lot at the beginning, so don't sweat it. Find some people you enjoy playing with/against, and most of all - have fun. Its a game, enjoy yourself.

Welcome to the family. =)

I think the above hit the nail on the head.

lol, wow I even learned alot from that, <shrugs> but I don't play so I'm good. if you need a pretty calm game check out my server it isn't big enough to have the good players on it <frowns>

Neon, just from working with you the other night your doing fine you’ll get there you’ll come out of TCW with loads of new knowledge and you will get to know a few new players who will be able to help you. I bet in month or two you will be podding me. Just keep asking questions and when someone does catch you and pods you don’t get mad laugh and ask how they did it.


Also I would like to say finding a mentor who is willing to teach you the game is the biggest part the person who got me started was a guy who went by the name of Underlord and man was he patient with me I owe him many props he no longer plays but he was a great script writer and very knowledgeable in the game.

Underlord if you’re out there and you ever want to come back to TW there’s a spot waiting for you on my perma.

the scary part is my parents got me into TW but all they taught me was to hit <?> when I was stumped some help that was

quote:Originally posted by Psion
If its not MBBS, then you use RTR.


If you actually break it down to cash per turn, rtr with an unedited rob percentage isn't cash effective, generally. You can't maintain your experience doing it and you need around 20k experience for it to pay as much as just straight planet trading.

Neon,

You have taken the first steps to becoming a better player by asking questions. I think you have already noticed from previous posts that the TW community is very willing to help new players. The next best thing that you can do is try to learn from your mistakes and not make them over and over again.

KB

Neon, to answer your number 11....

I'll be your huckleberry