Ok, I've been using Swath now for well over a year. I have given it a lot of benefit of the doubt because I'm frankly not the greatest when it comes to mastering software progams. I do usually figure them out but it takes me a while.

Swath consistently DOES NOT DO what it claims to do. It does not run Rexx Scripts well, in fact, it barely runs Java scripts written FOR SWATH.

IN FACT! Even the built in scripts that come with Java don't run properly. I run the SST and SSM scripts that are built in (using the buttons on the tool bar) and CONSISTENTLY I get busted trying to rob the same port I just robbed. In other words, the SST scripts that Swath provides can't seem to remember which port you robbed last!!! That's inexcusable. Here's the most recent bust! Just for evidence. This bust occurred running the SST feature, with the helper activated (light bulb selected) and all systems normal!

quote:
(R)ob this port, (S)teal product or (Q)uit (?=Help) S

Suddenly you're Busted!

The port Guards surround you in a flash and the port Administrator is called.
He arrives shortly and fines you 50 Cargo Holds and all your cargo for your
audacity. "Don't let me find you around here again", he spits.

The port droids remove the holds from your ship and send you fleeing.

For getting caught your alignment went down by 50 point(s).
and you LOSE 648 experience point(s).
(You realize the guards saw you last time!)


For this reason, I can't recommend swath to new users looking for a Helper!

(Oh, I also get continual "start error" windows while loading Swath, and sometimes it just doesn't load, and other times I even get BLUE screen errors). I've written Swath, I've spoke to MacAhan on ICQ, to no avail!

I use swath almost exclusively. I do not very often use the evil buttons.
My TWX scripts work far too well to use them. I also get the start error and the dreaded blue screen. I like swath other features enuff to continue using it. I dont use rexx or java. so its no problem. I understand why someone would not want to put up with its problems. I guess sometimes I get comfortable with certain programs and can get around or ignore the junk part.
The visual map, com window, and macro record are enuff for me. so I would recommend it. I don't fault you for your take on it. When you pay for something you like it to work.
My 2 cents pick up my change later.

quote:Originally posted by Tradewarrior55

I use swath almost exclusively. I do not very often use the evil buttons.
My TWX scripts work far too well to use them. I also get the start error and the dreaded blue screen. I like swath other features enuff to continue using it. I dont use rexx or java. so its no problem. I understand why someone would not want to put up with its problems. I guess sometimes I get comfortable with certain programs and can get around or ignore the junk part.
The visual map, com window, and macro record are enuff for me. so I would recommend it. I don't fault you for your take on it. When you pay for something you like it to work.
My 2 cents pick up my change later.






There's the nearfig menu. Buydump. Altho its really slow, it convenient for upgrading planets.

All that aside tho, Swath is pretty! The bright colors make it much easier to see red on black (something that is hard for me).

I'd switch to zoc instantly if someone could point out to me how to do that.

Jasper

Use the TWX scripts with Swath....Problem Solved

I like the status window thing on the left in Swath. I like the Visual map, and love the macro features! I wish swath was more like zoc/revhelper in that you can make your own toolbar buttons to execute scripts/macros/etc... would be kick butt

Ditto, I use SWATH and have for many years. Never had a last rob NOT listed unless I use some TWX script that does not record it (but most do). SWATH does not let you port at all in a port in your bust list, nor your last rob/steal. I usually try and can honestly say NO BIG PROBLEMS HERE.

Just guessing, since obviously I do not know the game settings where that was, but it was not your last rob, but an old bust. Double chech your bust list and make sure the clear after X days matches your game settings... If you want to try to fix the problem, email or ICQ me and I give it my best shot...

However, if your last rob is/was using another helper (anything without SWATH turned on) it can not record it. But hey, whatever, most helpers have shareware versions, so download ATTAC and have at it. ZOC is just a telnet app, but the REV HELPER stuff works well, just dunno if it can be shareware or if you have to buy REV's stuff before you buy it... But someone should know how that deal works..Just whatever you do, stay away from TWAR for Windows...

quote:Originally posted by Strider_2001

Use the TWX scripts with Swath....Problem Solved


I have a registered TWX, guess what, most of the scripts don't work with swath, twx stops dead in it's tracks, (just like the Java scripts do), I have to stop and restart continually, I also get "failed" error messages on half the TWX scripts while running them with swath

(and yes I disable the lightbulb button when I'm running twx).

Jeff

and yes, my clear bust in x days always matches the server stats that's the first thing I check and no I don't use twx sst scripts with swath, (that's one of the scripts that don't work).

Swath is SUPPOSED to no let your rob or steal the same port twice, but at least once per game session it does let you!
At least mine does. That bust I posted here occurred using swath SST feature exclusively. I've noticed it's usually when you use the SDT feature that this error in swath occurs.
Other problems with swath:

1. ZTM fails almost 80 percent of the time
2. Cim data is not saved properly, when I holo scan a sector, it doesn't show up on a port pair list, and it doesn't show in a sector search.
3. When I ether probe a sector it still won't show on a port pair list, nor on a sector search.
4. Planets, ships, traders, mines, and fighters that I've seen with my own eyes while holo scanning do not show up in a sector search for those items.
4. Ether probe script feature is always unavailable (subdued) it never worked.
5. World Explore feature is always unavailable. Mac said you gotta ZTM first, but I then did a full ZTM and when I was done the World Explore feature was still subdued.


I could go on an on

I have used swath for 2 years. I run a dozen different zoc/rexx scripts on it with absolutely no problems. some are homemade scripts some are rev scripts. ALL my twx scripts work excellent with swath. CK, SUPG, and various other peoples scripts and all work great. I very seldom get the startup error.

I don't know what the problem is with your install, but the problems u are having are not typical of swath.

quote:Swath consistently DOES NOT DO what it claims to do.

Okay, you state that SWATH does not do what it claims to do. But, you have not given any examples of any claims that were made. That SWATH specifically does not do.

Oh, you give examples of things that are claimed to be done in SWATH. But, there seems to be problems with the use of them.

But, no specific false claims have been given.


Since you have not given any proof of theses false claims. This statement is completely wrong.

quote:It does not run Rexx Scripts well

First of all, Rexx script support is a very recent addition. As in it was added in the v1.6 release.

Second, anybody that is very familar with the Rexx scripting language. Can tell you, that there is more than 1 implementation of the Rexx scripting lanquage. And each and everyone of them. Has differences that will make any script not work properly in any of the others.

I have heard that there is as many as 5 different implementations of the Rexx scripting lanquage. But, I only know of two of them. One is the Standard/Original Rexx scripting language. And the second one is the one used in ZOC.

As far as I know, SWATH is using the Standard/Original Rexx scripting language. And Since all scripts currently made for TW2002. Are made with the ZOC implementation. There is going to be problems with some scripts not working properly.

BTW Stein is very aware that some scripts will not work properly. And he has stated that, if you come across any Rexx script that does not work like is should. Then, all you need to do. Is to contact him with the information about the problem. And to send a copy of the script.

Once he receives that information, and the script, he will work on getting the Rexx implementation to work properly.

Obviously, you did not do that. Or you would not be complaining here about that.

quote:in fact, it barely runs Java scripts written FOR SWATH.

Since you have not given an specific proof to this claim. All I can say is. You either do not know how to code in java. Or you are using a script that was never updated to the newest SWATH API. So in either case the script will not work.

I have never had a script that I have created, or that others have created, not work. As long as you code it correctly. And make sure it is uptodate with the current API.

The only issue with SWATH's java scripts. Is that they do not run with speeds. Near enough to be competative with scripts created in Rexx or TWX.

quote:IN FACT! Even the built in scripts that come with Java don't run properly. I run the SST and SSM scripts that are built in (using the buttons on the tool bar) and CONSISTENTLY I get busted trying to rob the same port I just robbed. In other words, the SST scripts that Swath provides can't seem to remember which port you robbed last!!! That's inexcusable. Here's the most recent bust! Just for evidence. This bust occurred running the SST feature, with the helper activated (light bulb selected) and all systems normal!


First, none of the built in script options are java. Nor do they come with java. So get your facts straight.

Second, Despite the above you might have an issue here. But, I really can not say. As I seldom use the built in script options. As I create my own scripts to do the same. I either use java or twx to create them.

But, as to your evidence. It really isn't evidence to what you have claimed. It does not show any information about what port this occured at. Nor does it show the first time you busted there. Nor does it show any of the information. That transpired between the first bust and the fake bust.

And do not bother posting a log of it. As no one will believe you. This is because logs can very easily be doctored, before they are posted. I would suggest that you post screen shots of the actual proof. While it is still being shown from with in your telnet client, or helper.

But, then I get the impression. That you are as good as Res, when it comes to doctoring screenshots. So that won't work either.


quote:(Oh, I also get continual "start error" windows while loading Swath, and sometimes it just doesn't load, and other times I even get BLUE screen errors). I've written Swath, I've spoke to MacAhan on ICQ, to no avail!

Well, in the 4+ years that I have been using SWATH. I have never had these problems. That does not mean they are not there. It may be that it only happens on your system alone. Or it may be a combination of other programs you have running. I can not say either way.

But, since I have not seen any posts about either of these problems, on the SWATH support forums. Then the problem must be only with you and Tradewarrior55.


quote:For this reason, I can't recommend swath to new users looking for a Helper!

Well, if you do not like it. Then don't use it.

But, from what I have read here. You are being nothing more than a p***k. Like you have done, since you started posting here in the forums.

Just because you believe in your own mind. That you know TWGS/TW2002 better then JP. And that you know SWATH better then Stein or MacAhan. Does not give you the right. To demand from the author(s) of either program. That they fix what you believe to be a problem with the program. Or to fix the problem in your timeframe.

Nor does it give you the right to harras, or abuse, the author. About their total lack of attention to you. And your "know more than they do" attitude.

What version of swath? Have you downloadedd the Java Sdk? Have you recompiled the java scripts? there are a couple of the java scripts that don't work right , don't remember which ones cause i usually use twx scripts. Most rev helper scripts don't work in swath yet, Stein is working on that. Swath 1.7 should fix the rexx script problem it does interface very nicely with Twx. Never had a problem getting busted twice at the same port not sure what you are doing wrong there. Are you using the right steal settings? As far as the blue screen haven't seen it since i switched to XP
Be patient 1.7 should fix most of the issues

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord

quote:Originally posted by Strider_2001

Use the TWX scripts with Swath....Problem Solved


I have a registered TWX, guess what, most of the scripts don't work with swath, twx stops dead in it's tracks, (just like the Java scripts do), I have to stop and restart continually, I also get "failed" error messages on half the TWX scripts while running them with swath

(and yes I disable the lightbulb button when I'm running twx).

Jeff


This is not an issue with SWATH, or SWATH being used with TWX. This is an issue with TWX. And since you are the only person that has this problem. Then it is realy a problem with your system. And the programs currently running on it.

Once you take care of that. Then TWX and SWATH will run fine.

quote:Originally posted by severian

..Just whatever you do, stay away from TWAR for Windows...


check this out... http://www.swath.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000285.html

Read my post specifically.

Yah know, in general, I try to stay away from talking smack much, or being overly insultive. Mainly it doesn't accomplish much. BUT, since this is the prime example of what people complain about SGO doing, I'm gonna take a stab at it.

You posted a list of problems you saw with SWATH. Given, you had problems, I don't doubt it. As a software programmer, there are always going to be bugs in software, or undesireable features. Is their bug free software? Sure, but that is another thread that I'm sure Diddy can cover much better than I.

Anyway, you listed problem, how many of these did you post in the helpers forums and look for help on? Is it simply you tried it, it didn't work therefore it sucks?

This may surprise you, but many people use Swath with TWX scripts, and I know Timbo writes Java scripts for Swath. While I don't use the Java stuff much, I have from time to time, and had very few problems.

1.) TWX not working with Swath. I'm not sure what problems you have, but as a TWX scripter, I use Swath all the time, and I don't have these problems. I used Swath before I even had TWX, and never had much of a problem. Sure, there are scripts that don't work right, if as the user you do not set stuff up correctly.

2.) ZTM: Yah I'll give ya that, the ZTM is very unstable, and if you crash, you can lose it all. Okay, given. So run a different ZTM script. To be honest (no offense to Stein), SWATH's ZTM is one of the worst out there. Go download a good one.

3.) CIM data. I don't know what problem you have. My guess would be user error again. If you have voids, SWATH assumes you know what you are doing and doesn't calculate routes through those voids. So if you void all adj sectors, than search for ports within range, OMG you don't find any! I use the CIM data constantly, and never see issues, heck, the port info is WAY better than TWX, because TWX database doesn't update from a cr, while SWATH does.

4.) Probed Sectors not Showing up: Well, a couple of points. First after you probe it you need to CIM. Secondly, if you probe, and someone covers it with a fig, than you CIM, it still won't show. I don't see these issues, and as I said I use SWATH alot.

5.) Planets not showing up in Sector Search: Yah know, I never use that option, so I can't comment, maybe is does, maybe it doesn't work.

6.) Scripts Not Working: Not sure about why is doesn't work, but than I don't use them either.

7.) Start Failure: Yep, I've seen it, have it from time to time. I get over it, I kill the failed start in my Taskbar, and restart it. OMG I do that with other programs too.

8.) REXX/ZOC: Yep, there are some problems here. I tried to use scripts that were written for Zoc, and didn't work in Swath. Well JEEZ oh PETES! The script author didn't design them for Swath. He designed them for Zoc. So no big deal.

9.) It never ceases to amaze me how people can get free scripts, than complain about them. Hell, I give my corpies scripts, and they find bugs, and sometimes die. They send me a message, explain, and I fix the bug or bad option. Heck, I know that it isn't fun to die, but they suck it up. I don't have time to test everything, and they get the script. You seem to complain about everything, yet I don't see you coming asking for help, instead just complaining.

So my advise as a whole to SGO:
1.) Uninstall Current Software
2.) Download newest Software
3.) Install newest software
4.) Carefully read forums on SWATH and TWX
5.) Try, just TRY to figure out what happened, so you can than capture, and intelligently post in the appropriate forums about what problems you have, and perhaps, if you aren't a rude Butt, people will be happy to help you. Hell, I usually respond via ICQ to people who have problems if they ask. I want people to get better at the game!

To other's who haven't tried Swath themselves:
1.) Ignore SGO's rant
2.) Download a trial version of Swath
3.) Give it a shot, if you have questions ask in the forums.
4.) Swath is not the miracle helper, but it does have some features no other popular helper has (the awesome map).

Seems clear to me that user-friendly SWATH isn't sgo-friendly... /me thinks take sgo out of the equasion and universal harmony shall be restored.