Never mind

That would be why when you are going to hit offensive fighters you need a ship with good defensive odds. Otherwise there would be NO defense against offensive fighters.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord


According to the formula offered by EIS, offensive figs attack with 1.25 NO MATTER HOW MANY SHIPS THE INVADER IS CARRYING! Therein lies the flaw in how the offensive figs work. Now either the docs are wrong, or the programmer left out a variable in the formula, in which case the formula is wrong. BOTH can't be right!


The docs are wrong then. However, I think just about everyone has heard of http://www.tw-cabal.com. And on that site, it clearly explains the patterns of offensive figs.

quote:Originally posted by arucard

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord


According to the formula offered by EIS, offensive figs attack with 1.25 NO MATTER HOW MANY SHIPS THE INVADER IS CARRYING! Therein lies the flaw in how the offensive figs work. Now either the docs are wrong, or the programmer left out a variable in the formula, in which case the formula is wrong. BOTH can't be right!


The docs are wrong then. However, I think just about everyone has heard of http://www.tw-cabal.com. And on that site, it clearly explains the patterns of offensive figs.


Check it out, offensive figs are supposed to shoot 1.25* at you right, then how come 2 billion offensive fighters only did slightly more damage to the same ship?

(SEE MY EDITS IN MY ORIGINAL POST FOR THE CAPTURES)

when dealing with sector figs, whether attacking or defending, there is a random factor involved in how twgs calculates damage. This is easily evidenced by the fact that many times killing one sector fig, regardless of ships offensive odds, can take more than 1 fighter. I'm not sure what your point is - offensive figs are quite predictable. If you are at all familiar with sector entry events, the math plays out the same every time, give or take a few fighters. Randomness is a factor that permeates the game; many 'equations' are merely very very close approximations. Kemper's formula was not an approximate however. Notice, according to kemper's formula, 390000 figs should have attacked your ship. Notice that 58M - 390000 = 57,610,000. Exactly as predicted.

"As you can see, I sustained almost the SAME amount of damage from 2 BILLION offensive figs as I sustained from the 58 million figs! I don't need to be a mathemetician to figure out that 1.25 of 2 billion should be a lot MORE fighters than 1.25 of 58 million! Yet, evidently it's not that much more. HEHEHE! Something don't add up, and you don't have to be a math genius to figure that one out!"

The quantity of sector fighters is not part of the equation - the equation says that IF POSSIBLE (meaning there are enough sector figs), the sector figs will attack with 1.25 * (max figs+shields) of the ship that is entering the sector. If you notice, both sector entries had the sector attacking with the exact same number of fighters. Your damage differed by a negligable amount, but that can be attributed to randomness.

I did not look up the documentation you quoted, however if that is the current documentation, it is incorrect. That being said, the documentation is generally speaking, well, very general.

laff man

they shoot 1.25 the max (figs + shields) YOUR ship can carry
which is exactly what harley said in his post

quote: Offensive figs attack with 1.25 * (max figs + max shields). They attack with 1:1 odds.)

and the fact that the figs hit you for slightly different amounts isnt very amazing

i think there's a small random element in combat situations, like if you shoot X figs at X odds against a ship with Y figs and Y odds repeatedly - the damage inflicted each time will vary slightly

this however has nothin to do with how offensive figs act, but how combat odds work in general in TW

offensive figs, yet again, will always rain or shine - shoot 1.25 (amount o figs) the MAX shields + figs YOUR ship can carry, and they will always attack at 1:1 odds (please note : odds)

quote:Originally posted by Didaskalos

The quantity of sector fighters is not part of the equation - the equation says that IF POSSIBLE (meaning there are enough sector figs), the sector figs will attack with 1.25 * (max figs+shields) of the ship that is entering the sector. If you notice, both sector entries had the sector attacking with the exact same number of fighters. Your damage differed by a negligable amount, but that can be attributed to randomness.

Thank you thank you thank you!!!

You're the first person who's made any sense!

To be fair, Harley has been saying the same darned thing to me all along, but your adding of the phrase "of the ship that is entering the sector" drove it all home to me! That being the case, the documents are correct. The number of fighters and shields of the invading ship ARE in the equation in that, it looks at the number of fighters and shields, then sends a SET amount of 1.25* that after the ship! (Which is why Harley said if the ship has more than 1.2 defensive odds it's quite safe from the silly offensive fighters).

It all makes sense to me now, and the light has come on in my dim noggin

I still don't agree with how the figs behave, but at least now I thoroughy UNDERSTAND how it is that 2 billion fighters don't do much more damage than 58 million. Under the current set up of offensive fighter behavior, the number of offensive fighters deployed is actually irrelevant once the ship has over 1.25 defensive odds, because 1.25* the ship compliment is all the offensive fighters will send after the ship in an attack.

Why oh Why they chose to program the offensive fighter attack in this manner escapes me, for, if you have ships with over 1.2 defensive odds in the universe, offensive fighters are completely worthless, and in fact offensive fighters in such a universe are a waste, because, the person can just keep loading and re entering, taking out your fighters at 1:1 odds, rather than having to battle the defensive fighters.

I'm thinking that this behavior (the 1.25* fighters and shields) variable was created BEFORE there existed mega defensive odds ships (Gold), and it was just never changed, but maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps it truly would have been better for the fighters to send a certain percentage of the total offensive fighters deployed into the battle, leaving a certain percentage away. That way, the more offensive figs you put in a sector, the more deadly it is for a ship to enter that sector.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord



The game docs are seriously flawed in many ways. Yet, in no other way are they flawed the most than in their description of how OFFENSIVE FIGHTERS WORK. Taken directly from the DOCS:

Offensive fighters will send out an attack group on any poor soul
who happens into their sector. The size of the attack
group depends on the fighter support escorting the
intruder. After the initial attack, offensive fighters
fall back to defend their territory.

According to this explanation, Offensive fighters send out an attack group "depending upon the fighter support escorting the intruder." However, according to Harley, the amount of fighters an intruder is carrying has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with how many offensive fighters attack you!

Here is a capture of Harley's post, explaining how offensive fighters work:

quote:Offensive figs attack with 1.25 * (max figs + max shields). They attack with 1:1 odds. The initial post here outlines the settings. The sector was entered in a ship that could take 205k damage (figs + shields). The planets did 42k damage. This left 163k figs on the ship. Now the sector figs attack. They send 1.25 * 205000 = 256250 figs at your ship attacking at 1:1 odds. The ship defends at 1.5:1 odds, meaning it can effecively defend against 163000 * 1.5 = 244500 figs. The difference here is 256250 figs sent, your ship defends against the first 244500 figs, meaning 256250 - 244500 = 11750 figs were left which killed the ship. THIS is how it works, every time. If you don't do the math, don't think you can just guess how it's going to come out. When you change cannon blasts, ship odds, and ship fig min/max, you have to rework it for those variables.


Nowhere is the variable "invading ship's fighters" even mentioned.



Your suck a moron that I really have to question why JP sent you reg codes or why Gypass or Kemper3 allow you to post in this forum. You were told it's changed and to now find some proof that it's changed was just silly. You cant knock someone for telling you it's changed, and what it's changed to.

It was changed GOD FORBID so it would stop in game spamming that could both a) really bog down a server and b) really REALLY bog down a "targed" player or group of players account.

Now as for you finding it in the "Help" section..
I know you are only reading the "Help" section so you can *****, because your asking for "Help" on the twgs setup & features and if you would read about setting the TWGS & GAmes up then you would find the information you need. IE, Do something ****ing useful for a change.

Well I am glad we have the offensive figs running amock err amuck aw i dunno i am not sure how its spelled. Any way glad its finally cleared up.
FYI I was having a brewsky at the trders tavern the other day. Who walks in but the Ferrengi Overlord. I bought him a couple rounds and we had the disscusion of offensive figs running amuck. He informed me No and he said No ferrengi figs ever run amuck. There programing is flawless. He would know they Stole the Best technology available.

Now I know this may be a lame post but I was bored and figured if ya cant post a lame post in the smack section where does it belong. <shrug>

so off figs attack 1.25 X max(figs+shields) of YOUR current ship right...hehe

quote:
You were told it's changed and to now find some proof that it's changed was just silly. You cant knock someone for telling you it's changed, and what it's changed to.

Um I have to go back into that forum and read Harley's responses. As I recall, he said the offensive figs response has NOT been changed! Someone suggested it had been and he told them no. Actually I don't understand your argument, it's irrelevant completely and has nothing at all to do with this post. Whether or not the offensive figs attack formula has been changed over the years ISN'T EVEN THE SUBJECT. And you have the nerve to call ME a moron!

quote:
Now as for you finding it in the "Help" section..
I know you are only reading the "Help" section so you can *****, because your asking for "Help" on the twgs setup & features and if you would read about setting the TWGS & GAmes up then you would find the information you need. IE, Do something ****ing useful for a change.

Don't tell me my motivations, you aren't God, and you cannot read minds! Just because you are too stupid to GRASP my arguments, don't assume that my arguments are the problem. IDIOT!



[/quote]

It's "amuck" hehe typo


quote:Originally posted by Tradewarrior55

FYI I was having a brewsky at the trders tavern the other day. Who walks in but the Ferrengi Overlord. I bought him a couple rounds and we had the disscusion of offensive figs running amuck. He informed me No and he said No ferrengi figs ever run amuck. There programing is flawless. He would know they Stole the Best technology available.


You saw that bastard? He owes me money!!!