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The new version of twgs
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12243		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Tradewarrior55 [ Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:48 pm ]
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Well I would like to see some feed back here on the new version, So far from what I have read I am not impressed. Looks like the main fix is screwing with scripts. Those of you who have been testing it please let us know.
Thanx,
TW55
Author:  Orion_Blastar [ Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:59 am ]
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What scripts does it mess up? My ATTAC program can Buy Down a port to a planet, colonize, and do other things. Is it messing with TWX scripts? Thanks.
Author:  Tradewarrior55 [ Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:25 am ]
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http://www.eisonline.com/twforum/topic. ... hichpage=2
Author:  Harley Nuss [ Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:24 am ]
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The intention was not to screw with scripts, but rather to stop the globals being abused for bug purposes. In that way, it was successful. Also fixed was the big bang bug that were making bubble inaccesable and ports not function. Also, you no longer get free time at midnight with a time limit (although the minimum login time doesn't work). All and all, it's a really stable release. After the first couple of times of trying to kill myself typing at the wrong prompt (halfway through the sentence before I realize sub didn't work there, and I'm sending every key to the game), I really haven't had any problems with it.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:29 pm ]
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We need to have a healthy debate about what prompts still need to be global and why. My initial step was to clamp down on the globals, and then I can start to add other prompts back in if I believe that globals cannot be abused from those prompts.

I'm sorry that scripts are going to be interferred with, but the reality is that there are a lot of problems in the game right now that are directly attributed to script use. The globals change is a drastic one, but based on the feedback I've been receiving from the community as a whole over the past two years, something needs to be done.
Author:  outlaw78 [ Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:22 pm ]
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Exactly how could globals be abused?? (probably way behind with this question, as usuall)
Author:  Cherokee-TLTT [ Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:12 pm ]
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I think we need to take the focus away from script use, because that is an entirely different topic. As long as this game is accessible by any standard telnet, scripts will continue to be used, and will provide reaction time advantages over what a normal human can accomplish. But like I said, that is a separate topic.

What we should be focusing on is the gameplay issue created by the removal of globals from certain prompts... making them not truly globals. I have lots of thoughts on this, but no time right now, so I'll be back a little later today to weigh in.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:14 pm ]
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This isn't the right place to detail the global exploits. The fewer people who know about them, the better.
Author:  Cherokee-TLTT [ Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:03 pm ]
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JP,

It seems to me that the kinds of bugs that globals were involved in were more the result of the TW code checking the game state before the final user input, rather than after. Checking that the target of a photon is not fedspace, or checking the location of a port that is being attacked, or checking whether a citadel can be upgraded to the next level... these are all things that should be validated after the user says "ok" -- regardless of whether a global command is used from a particular prompt.

Perhaps I am way off base here, and please correct me if I am... but it seems you took the "easy way out" on this issue, by clamping down on globals, as if they were the real cause of the problem, rather than do the harder work of fixing all of bugs that could be exploited through globals. From my perspective as a player, the problem is the data validation. There simply isn't ANYWHERE in the game that I feel is ok to eliminate subspace or fedcom, or #, or /, or hails, or whatever.

I realize you are probably far more interested in version 4. But if you ask most of the current players of TWGS version 3.xx, I think you'll find that most of them are quite happy with the game and would just like the few remaining bugs to be addressed, without drastically changing game play or balance.

As for scripting "ruining the game" -- these complaints generally come from newbies who really have no idea what (if any) scripts are being used. I've been saying this for a LONG time now... but scripts do not make a player. They are just tools. Put me in a game with these same newbies who are complaining about scripts, take away my ability to use scripts, and they will still be newbies, and they will still complain about how they got killed 3 seconds after they left fedspace. PLEASE don't make any changes to game play or balance in an attempt to address the "script problem". Save those kinds of changes, if you really feel they are necessary, for version 4. In the meantime, I'm very glad to see you back and active and interested in TW.

If anyone wants a good debate on the topic of scripts and how they do (and don't!) affect game play, start a new thread, or look me up on email ( brian_c_massey@yahoo.com ) or ICQ # 121822484.
Author:  Orion_Blastar [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:26 am ]
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Well I can see that removing globals can break certain scripts. The scripts will need to be rewritten. I have not yet been effected by it yet, or found a script that broke yet. Is it maybe the attack scripts that break, I do not have any of those yet.
Author:  rompca [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:59 pm ]
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Clamping down on the globals wasn't necessarily the "easy way out." I think that with those in place there was the potential for even more (yet undiscovered) bugs to be exploited. JP has said that if there is a good case for enabling a global at a specific prompt he'd turn it back on.

As for the scripts, the TW scripting community is well-informed enough to adapt to this quickly. Also not every server is going to update overnight.
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