OMYGOD, it's back.

In your next stupid rant please address the following:

a. Sysop cheated by spying on my node in a game in which he was an active participant. If you cannot see that is cheating, dont bother responding.

b. Sysop lied by saying he didnt play in his own game, then changing his tone when he got caught lying.

c. Please QUOTE me these "sweeping generalizations".

d. I said DONT PLAY ON THIS SERVER IF YOU ARE SMART. Obviously after reading that you chose to ignore it. I understand why...I was only talking to the smart people.

e. I attacked you because you have this silly habit of trying to debate things that arent debatable. I attacked you because you try to put words into people's mouths because you have no life other than to sit and try to think of ways to make people mad so you can argue with them. Let me help you out: Start a politics thread and we can argue all day long. You dont have to be so silly as to insert words into others mouths if you want to debate with them. In your case, anything you say is debatable as it is always idiotic. I can see you now quivering with excitement at the chance to debate with me on whether your interpretation of my first post is correct or incorrect. I have news for you...until you offer something fresh other your baseless accusations that I made generalizations I am done with this conversation. See my next post for REAL debate.

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector

a. Sysop cheated by spying on my node in a game in which he was an active participant. If you cannot see that is cheating, dont bother responding.

If that's what happened it was cheating plain and simple. You are correct, IF that's what happened.


quote:
b. Sysop lied by saying he didnt play in his own game, then changing his tone when he got caught lying.

Was it lying? Was he actually playing? I haven't seen the proof of those statements. That's all I said. IF he was playing the game, and said he wasn't, then said he was, well, you again have a very valid point.

quote:

c. Please QUOTE me these "sweeping generalizations".


Ok first generalization:

quote:

so bottom line is that sysop
a. Plays in his own games as you will soon see.
b. Uses tedit during a game

IE, "you shouldn't play at a system where sysop plays his own game and uses TEDIT during a game."

I know quite a few who do this, and they don't cheat with the TEDIT!

Second Generalization:

quote:
Beware of this server if you are smart as it will eventually cheat you. Follows is my cimmail and then "Jeff" (sysop) talking on fed.


Now how can you POSSIBLY know this? The events that happened to you do not PROVE that if I or someone else goes there, that the system will "eventually cheat us." Now if you had said "there's a possibility you might be cheated" I couldn't disagree!

Third Generalization

quote:

If he didnt have any kind of access, how the heck would he have a clue that I was using a helper. Instead of getting on here and continuing to lie just say it was a mistake to play on your own server and an even bigger mistake to try to ban someone for using a helper. A better question for you is "Who does NOT use a helper?"


He (this Jeff guy) could have known you were using a helper because the sysop told him! The fact that he knew is not evidence that he had "spying" capability!

Why is it a "mistake" to try and ban someone for using a helper? If it's a system that doesn't allow helpers?

Who does NOT use a helper? I know quite a few who don't. Just because YOU don't know any people like that, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Fourth Generalization:

quote:
THE REASON TO STAY AWAY FROM THIS SERVER IS BECAUSE YOU PLAY ON IT AND USE TEDIT TO TRY TO ENFORCE YOUR STUPID RULES.

Again I know several Sysops who play on their own servers, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to NOT use Tedit to enforce your rules! (And you have the nerve to say MY arguments are stupid!)

Fifth Generalization:

quote:
The no helper days are long gone and ESPECIALLY in unlimited games. It is a silly rule and just because you are too friggin lazy to go out and learn how to use twx or swath or zoc is the only reason you have a problem with it.

Again, there are many who still do not use helpers! You just don't know what you are talking about. Furthermore, if you ask those people they say YOU are the lazy one, for having a helper do all your work for you!

Sixth Generalization:

quote:

I enter game
I worldtrade
He watches ME worldtrade while playing in the same game
He boots me and takes my stuff away because he doesnt have access to a worldtrade script
He WATCHES me some more


I take you back to your first post. Here is the capture evidence you provided. Nowhere do you provide any CONCRETE evidence that "Jeff" and "Sysop" who threatened to ban you are one in the same, and nowhere do you provide any evidence that the Sysop, while playing his own game, spied on you! You simply state that Jeff and the Sysop are the same person and we are supposed to believe you! That's a HUGE generalization:

Here's your capture evidence again:

quote:
Beware of this server if you are smart as it will eventually cheat you. Follows is my cimmail and then "Jeff" (sysop) talking on fed.

Received from Admin at 10:23:38 PM S.D. 04/18/16:
> It is my understanding you are using a helper program
> I saw it myself
> I AM THE ADMIN
> if you use it again it will be an IMMEDIATE IP BAN
Received from Admin at 10:25:13 PM S.D. 04/18/16:
> your credits have been reset to 200k that Jeff gave you
> your ship to 40 holds
> if you would like to protest this then please mail me back
> ONE MORE TIME AND IT IS AN IP BAN!
> JEFF TOLD YOU AND YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT I AM SERIOUS WHEN I SAY
> IT IS AN IP BAN!

12:14:36 AM F Jeff no helpers
12:14:43 AM F Jeff I have ability to ban remotely
12:14:43 AM F Jeff though
12:14:52 AM F Jeff no TEEDIT through the remote admin
12:14:53 AM F Jeff heh
12:15:04 AM F Jeff I don't own the server but I take care of it
12:15:20 AM F Jeff so with the remote admin I cannot give myself a million creds
12:15:34 AM F Jeff
12:15:38 AM F Jeff no helper programs
12:15:43 AM F Jeff helper programs=bannage
12:15:48 AM F Jeff g2g
12:15:49 AM F Jeff later
12:16:30 AM F Jeff A gang of thugs beat the tar out of you and rob you!
12:16:30 AM F Jeff For being stupid you LOSE 69 experience point(s).
12:16:30 AM F Jeff You have been demoted to Staff Sergeant!
12:16:33 AM F Jeff hehe
12:16:36 AM F Jeff silly thugs
12:16:42 AM F Jeff I didn't have any money
12:17:04 AM F Jeff he shoots you in the head
12:17:07 AM F Jeff g2t
12:19:37 AM F Admin hey

Of course there would be no way that "jeff" would know I was using a helper as I made no mention of it. Unless he is the sysop watching it on the twgs side. Furthermore, if you have REMOTE access to ban someone you have remote tedit access. Yawn, have fun guy...

That last statement was a massive generalization because there are numerous ways for this "Jeff" person to know without spying on you, and without actually BEING the Sysop "incognito."


Seventh Generalization:

quote:
Ok, first let me help you out. When you question my thinking with absolutely NO knowledge then it irritates me. It makes ME think you are sticking up for an idiot sysop who has shown he is a cheater when I am doing people like YOU a favor. I warned you to stay away. How difficult is it to read that post and say "Hmmm, bone says the guy cheated so maybe I better read on and figure out why he thinks that." Instead you read letter A of my post and went "Hmmm, he just thinks he got cheated because the sysop plays on his own system." Instead of reading my post in its entirety, you chose to read one part and reply with "I dont get it." If you had simply read my post you would understand that the sysop WATCHED MY NODE WHILE I WAS PLAYING!!!! Get it now?

First of all, when you say I have "no knowlege" this is a GIGANTIC, HORRENDOUS, UBELIEVABLE generalization, of which you offer no proof except the fact that I disagree with you and the fact that I am not convinced by the evidence you offer that deliberate cheating was being committed on this system with the express intent of "cheating you or me."

In fact, that entire quoted post was ONE HUGE generalization!

You know I could go on, because your sweeping generalizations are in every post you make here, but I think I've made my point.

quote:
d. I said DONT PLAY ON THIS SERVER IF YOU ARE SMART. Obviously after reading that you chose to ignore it. I understand why...I was only talking to the smart people.

Ok, I see. You fail to make your case against this Sysop, and now you blame the "Juror" (me) because your evidence did not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was cheating you! Your insults do not affect me, and they only show what a weak minded person you are! You have offered as proof nothing but CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence, coupled with INUENDO and ASSUMPTIONS not based in fact! You're like the Pilgrims who burned people at the stake because they had a "mark" when they were born! You're an ignorant, supersticious lout, full of pretention and arrogance, and you have the nerve to say *I* have a God complex!

quote:
e. I attacked you because you have this silly habit of trying to debate things that arent debatable.



Anything is debatable, and I repeat ANYTHING!

quote:
I attacked you because you try to put words into people's mouths because you have no life other than to sit and try to think of ways to make people mad so you can argue with them.


*I* am trying to think of ways of making people mad? Wait a minute here's my original post to you on the subject:

quote:
There are a lot of respected game ops who post right here regularly who play on their own server! I just don't get you objection.

Here's your response:

quote:
I have watched others diss you on here and have always kept my thoughts to myself, but if you seriously are going to post stupid crap like that then you arent very smart. Let me break it down for you:

My post was totally inoffensive, simply a statement that I wasn't convinced, and yours was a personal attack! I'd say YOU are the one attempting to "make people mad" and not me at all! Again it's that "transference" thing I told you about earlier.

quote:
Let me help you out: Start a politics thread and we can argue all day long. You dont have to be so silly as to insert words into others mouths if you want to debate with them.

I haven't put any words into your mouth, I've simply responded to the words that came out of your mouth! It's not my fault your mouth overrides your Butt!

As for politics, there's two things I won't debate in public forum, Religion and Politics! Both are completely personal things and I would never try to criticize your beliefs in a Higher Power, or your beliefs in the Powers of Government! They are yours, and I am not so presumptuous to believe that it is my place to "debate" or to "denegrate" you in such fashion.

I do feel an ovewhelming need to debate you on THIS issue, however, because you are so clearly in the wrong in ALL respects, and because you chose to launch a personal attack against me, simply for disagreeing with you!



quote:

In your case, anything you say is debatable as it is always idiotic.


Anything anyone says is debatable, unless of course you are God! There we go again, who has the God complex? Me? I don't think so!

quote:
I can see you now quivering with excitement at the chance to debate with me on whether your interpretation of my first post is correct or incorrect. I have news for you...until you offer something fresh other your baseless accusations that I made generalizations I am done with this conversation. See my next post for REAL debate.


You got me there! I do quiver with excitement to debate such as you! You're so easy to "destroy" in a debate. That is a character flaw on my part. It's the only criticism you've made of me that stands true!

Well I popped on to the original server in question. Nobody playing. All of them must be off rubbing their wrists from ppt'ing

If a sysop is playing his own game, no decision he makes will be entirely impartial. Even if a sysop isn't playing his own game, it is poor form to change the rules in the middle of the game. It completely ruins a game and wastes his player's time. If he feels that something being done is not how he wants games played on his server, he should note it down for the next bang of the game, not arbitrarily edit out player assets. As a player, would YOU want to play on a system where you know in the past the sysop has decided he just "doesn't like something" and removed a bunch of a player's assets because of it? What if he decides he doesn't like players sdting? Uh oh, there goes all of your cash you've made. What if he doesn't think it's fair all those maxed planets you have? BOOM! No more planets. Basically, you can try to nitpick all you want, but if a sysop wants to do the sort of things that he did to bone in that game, most players who care about not being screwed over by the sysop should stay away.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector

a. Sysop cheated by spying on my node in a game in which he was an active participant. If you cannot see that is cheating, dont bother responding.

If that's what happened it was cheating plain and simple. You are correct, IF that's what happened.


quote:
b. Sysop lied by saying he didnt play in his own game, then changing his tone when he got caught lying.

Was it lying? Was he actually playing? I haven't seen the proof of those statements. That's all I said. IF he was playing the game, and said he wasn't, then said he was, well, you again have a very valid point.


The op posted this early in the thread (would put you moron in these brackets but I wont as it would be removed and I would be banned, but had I done it then it would read "The op posted this early in the thread you moron").

"bone collector
The reason I decided to play on my server in the first place is because"

lol

quote:The op posted this early in the thread (would put you moron in these brackets but I wont as it would be removed and I would be banned, but had I done it then it would read "The op posted this early in the thread you moron").

"bone collector
The reason I decided to play on my server in the first place is because"


Oh my GOD!

Let me break this down for you.

Bone Collector offered no proof that this particular sysop was playing IN THAT PARTICULAR GAME at THAT PARTICULAR TIME, when he was spying. IN fact, he never even showed us a player list with the name "sysop" on it. Instead, he showed us a Fed Comm conversation with some guy named JEFF, and asserted that Jeff and the Sysop were one in the same!

I never disputed that the Sysop plays on his own system. I simply responded to Bone Collector's statement that the sysop was using the spy feature and Tedit in a "game that he was playing."

Just because the Sysop admits to "playing on his system," does not in any way prove that he was playing IN THAT GAME, AT THAT TIME, using the alias "Jeff."

I would LOVE to hear from this Sysop again, and get a clarification, because I have a feeling we will find that he didn't even have a character in that particular game, and if he did, it was probably sitting at stardock cloaked with zero experience. Of course, I don't know this for sure, it's just a hunch.

You and Bone seem bent on twisting his statement "the reason I decided to play on my system is because," to offer it as some sort of proof that the guys was actually playing the GAME that Bone was playing, and to more than insinuate that his real reasons for doing what he did was because Bone was some sort of threat to him in the game, and the sysop wanted to knock him down some because he wanted his own character to be stronger, or whatever!

I just don't see ANY of that!

Now, I'll answer Harley in this post. Yes Harley I whole heartedly agree with you in your last post. In fact, I've told Bone at least three times in this string that the only real valid complaint he had was that the "no helper rule" was unannounced and he should have not been penalized for unannounced rules. In fact, in one post I said "that alone would have been enough to make most people stay away from his server."

Yet, that has not been the issue of this continuing thread! What has been the issue is that Bone Head Collector made sweeping generalizations about sysops who play on their own servers! He can try to deny it all he wants, but everyone can read his posts for themselves!

If a sysop plays on his own game, and he keeps to himself, and he never invades anyone, and he doesn't corp up and play favorites with other corps, and he never captures the ship of another player, and he never invades another player's home sectors, he just plays... kills an alien or a ferrengi now and then. How can ANYONE say that sysop is cheating? It's utterly ridiculous! Yet, you say, "well he has an advantage."

Darn straight he does, the man has EDITOR access, there's no greater advantage, but is having advantage in a game based on your access level cheating? NO! It's only cheating if you USE the advantage to cheat the other players! That's common friggin sense!!!! Call me a moron all you want, but logic is logic!

SGO...shut it. You ***** more than anyone else ive seen on these forums.

Bottom line...sysops should not play on own servers even if they dont have tedit to particular game, cause even if they are not cheating...they most certainly will be accused of it.

quote:Originally posted by PHX

SGO...shut it. You ***** more than anyone else ive seen on these forums.

Bottom line...sysops should not play on own servers even if they dont have tedit to particular game, cause even if they are not cheating...they most certainly will be accused of it.




Now that's logic for you! I've been accused of cheating because I had more experience and a better ship and more fighters than anyone else on day 1 of the game, because they didn't understand how I did it.

Does that mean I shouldn't play there?

Ridiculous!

This world is FULL of false accusers, in fact in my estimation this is the GENERATION of the false accuser! I'm not going to let that affect me or how I live (or play), and I don't think that a Sysop should worry about it either! A sysop goes through the trouble of getting a computer, procuring TWGS software, registering everything, procuring a static IP, and all the headaches that go with it all, why shouldn't he or she be allowed to enjoy their own friggin game?

Let them cry "cheating sysop!" If the sysop never kills any other players, never invades them, never interferes with the game play of others, and plays no favoritisms, everyone will know that it's BS! And the ones that don't, frankly, as a Sysop, I don't want them on my system anyway!

PS don't tell me to SHUT it, I didn't START this! Bone called down the thunder when he attacked me for a two line post in which I told him I didn't see his point!!!!

I've been insulted, I've been ridiculed, and what for? Because I have an opinion! If he didn't want to HEAR opposing views he should not POST a DAMNED ENTRY in a PUBLIC FORUM!

Gads, I'm starting to see just how lacking common sense IS these days.

I'm surprised you feel this way, PHX, then why are you a "game op" on a system where the sysop plays his own game? Go check the player lists you'll find the sysop there under the name Mherlin!

interesting...i was not aware of the infraction however it is not in my control anyway. If the person actually running that twgs wants to play then what am I gonna do bout it. I did tell him my theory when I first hooked up to do a game there. I am not playing it. If it becomes a problem ill quit there.

heh, rich, my last final in wednesday, then ill get a couple games goin

Slim

Good deal slim good Deal. hope ya pass everything with flying colors! Looking forward to see what you come up with game wise.

I logged in to check out how TW's has progressed through the years, and perhaps even play again. I find, instead, a bunch of arguing people who let their computers play for them. Its no longer TW's it's helper-wars. I'm trying to avoid petty insults and the like, but I can plainly see the caliber of players has not evolved, and has in fact, degenerated.
I have, I must admit, learned a thing or two from this string, even including a few positive things. For that, I thank you all, and bow out, never to return. If such is the case, you’re welcome.

quote:Originally posted by raticus

I logged in to check out how TW's has progressed through the years, and perhaps even play again. I find, instead, a bunch of arguing people who let their computers play for them. Its no longer TW's it's helper-wars. I'm trying to avoid petty insults and the like, but I can plainly see the caliber of players has not evolved, and has in fact, degenerated.
I have, I must admit, learned a thing or two from this string, even including a few positive things. For that, I thank you all, and bow out, never to return. If such is the case, you’re welcome.



Everything changes in time. Society changes and people get worse (some better). technology grows, and people become busier.
if you dont have time, then you find another way. Dont you just love technology these days? You can actually do things without sitting there! and if your the kind of person you likes to sit there.. play a turn game...
hopefully you dont return, because some people in here would tear you up [:D] c-ya!

to win a game you HAVE to be AT KEYS. you will NEVER win a game by "just running scripts and walking away". its unfortunate that people just read this sort of stuff and assume it is right.

Slim