I disagree, ship movement delays hurt at the keys players. Unless it was so slow to be painful, it's not going to effect a burst macro vs. a manual typer.

I would like to exeperiment with the emulation settings, right now I have mine set at 56k down, 1mps up. Just for giggles, I'm going to slow the down to my game (P) down to 28.8 down, keeping the 1mps up and see how that feels.

Also on time limits I'll disagree with Micro. Unlimited time games are essential for the reactive scripts. They can sit online 24/7 and attack with these scripts, using very little if any turns.

Well judging by this thread Mongoose has apparently dismantled any kind of scripting which was his objective. Good Job! Now only if we could keep the players out of the big kid games and into the games where they should/want be. TIme limits automatically destroy and basic script. Even afk scripts. set the time limit low enough so a corp of 3-5 can't sit in the game all day long. Turn off your photons so they don't get photoned. While your at it better make a feature to dismantle the dropping of figs. Nice job mongoose you are soully the only guy smart enough to create a game with the features already intended for the sysop yet you jackass's want more. Thank god there are some servers that still run 1.03 as BUGGY (as you say it is) lord knows even in a 10k turn game at least people can get in play their turns without a problem and still have enough time left over to run a ztm..

I don't understand.

The AFK reactive attack scripts discourage new players and returnees, to put it mildly. Smoked if they hit a fig, by your CPU.

How do you get fun from that?

Well there is obviously a difference in the style of game play. That has been noted for years. I do find it fun to play in a unlimited turn game against some of the best players out there. I also enjoy getting smoked by them. It helps me play better for my style of game that I enjoy to play. Never said unlimiteds were for everyone. That is where the debate bounces back to. The debate is *correct me if I'm wrong* you want to attract the 10's of thousands of players that used to play. Ok go for it! But, why penalize everyone for your need of a game that was so long ago. I do enjoy playing turn games. I also enjoy the thinking that comes into it. I ran world sst like a bone head. I quickly learned that wasn't the style of play that was needed in that particular game. It's cool that J.P. is working hard along side some of the Beta testers to get the kinks worked out but release upon release upon release upon release is a little extreme in my opinion. Why not pool out the v2.xx to the testers and let them hack at it or keep the beta site for the beta testing. instead you mass produce a falsified copy of a game that is in the works. I for one don't enjoy that. Furthermore to get back on topic. It falls back down the choice of what a player wants to play. Take a newbie like Cloe for instance. Moaning and complaining because myself cruncher and mirco were laying figs down. I was not Wsst'ing at the time i was just porting and trading. She made a fuss and left the game. Now we get to hunt her down. this was a subzero edit. 93 million to buy the best ship which she has and it is fully loaded with figs. 255k. so she had to used world trade to make the cash and use a colo script to colonise. So it's okay to use certain scripts for certain things. use what features we have now and you have your game and we have ours. v1.03 I do not follow anyone else's beliefs on the beta or whatever version 2000 might come up. Finally, you have what you want to make a game the way you want to. you drop the game speed and it will stop almost any script. If you don't want a agressive game then stay out. J.P. at least has given everyone options. Thank you J.P. for giving us all options. I appreciate the hard work you and the beta testers are doing. I just don't see it a point to completely derail a game because some people like to script. Just my 2 cents!

I don't understand this. Could you explain it more?

The way I look at it, a ~1 second movement delay is a small fraction of the time it takes to decide where you want to go, and then type it. When I'm moving around manually, I don't even notice the delay.

Nope. Remember, I am a script writer myself. I use scripts for things like cashing, colonizing, and ZTM, and I consider those kinds of scripts essential. My intention is only to dismantle AFK reactive scripting... which is apparently so near and dear to some people that they see it as the whole point of the game.

Well then there's your sign. Change the time limit and limit corp sizes and turns there you go. You will be unable to run afk scripts for a long period of time. I do not see the whole game as just scripting. If you read a ealier post I said I had to bounce back basically to a older style of playing.. (by hand) Good god that was a while ago. but, each to their own you play your way and I'll play my way. Funny though. You are a script writer but you only use scripts that are essential to you. how is afk scripting not essential to a player like myself or many others? I don't see your point. It's kind of a hypocritical statement. Well this is good for me so i don't want what's good for you so i am going to try and take it away. Sounds a little sketchy to me. Almost like a politician....

Yep, that's exactly what I've done. Corp size is currently limited to 3, and the time limit is 2.5 or 3 hours, so each corp can sit AFK for at most about a third of the day. I think that's reasonable.




I'm sure it is. But keep in mind, I'm not trying to take unlims away from you. How could I? There will always be servers running unlims, at least as long as there are players who want to play them. All I can do is create an alternative for players who don't like unlims.

You come off like you're scared that my kind of edit will become popular, that time- and turn-limited games will became the norm, and you'll find yourself in the situation that players who don't like unlims find themselves in now: nowhere to play and nobody to play with. I don't expect that to happen, but if it does... pardon my schadenfreude.

Comet, I've spent another fifteen minutes of my life reading the rants of another player who goes off on this completely false premise. I just don't get it. Can you tell me how the latest versions have taken away your style of game? All I've done is give gameops the ability to take away your style of play if they so choose. So be honest and say that's what bothers you. It bothers you that people have the option to run and play games that you don't enjoy playing. You don't want people to have that choice. You want to be in control. Right?

This "we're sticking with v1.03" attitude is nothing more than a bunch of bullies saying "we're taking our ball and going home". I mean seriously, why, if one gameop chooses to run certain settings, does that mean that another gameop shouldn't run the new version? Here's a hint for you. Don't use those settings.

If I'm wrong, then tell me what I've changed that keeps you from running your turns as fast on v2 as on v1.03? When I put in the pacing, my goal was to lock it in at the current pace, NOT TO SLOW IT DOWN. The goal is that it won't continue to speed up, not that it should slow down. And I worked with Singularity and relied on his input to achieve that goal. If I have not achieved that goal, that means that there is more work to be done. This attitude that I'm antagonistic toward players like you is all in your head. I am willing to work to keep the game playable for you, AND work to make the game playable for others.

There is nothing wrong with a player wanting to play the game like Cloe plays it. I just want there to be options for that person to play the game like she wants to play it. But there is not and never has been any effort to take the game away from you. If that has happened, tell me how so I can fix it. Otherwise, please stop wasting my time.

Oh, a quick note on the approach I use for dev. This is nothing new. There were over 60 releases from v3.00 to v3.13, and at one point it was common for me to release multiple updates ever week. It's just a reality that you can't get a serious test of this game until it's being used in real, live games. I'm up to 14 releases since TWGS v2 came out, and the pace is down to every few weeks, so I don't see a problem. And I haven't had complaints about this at all. If anyone else complains about this, especially a gameop, then I'll give it some thought. The problem I tend to have, actually, is unreleased closed betas sneaking out and being used by gameops who are anxious to get the latest and greatest.

Oh I remember that game. 1500 turn game, relatively stockish. If
you notice on your screen cap, your FedComm tab is highlighted on
your comms tabs. That's me telling you to please quit hitting my
figgies. If you'd said something, anything, I'd have not pdropped
on ya. But as it seemed you were running an 'AFK' cashing script
I kicked on the pdrop to see what shook loose.

To get back to your topic, a call for play testers, I like testing new
servers and edits, but it just looks like you've used both suspenders
and a belt to ratchet down the settings. Either make it a time limit
game Or a game with delays, not both. Again, this is just my
personal preference, if you got a team of reds already, so much the
better. It just seemed that you were wondering why a red corp
hadn't stepped up and tried out your edit.

I mean no offense, it seemed like you wanted some answers.


PS So I obviously troll, but that doesn't neccessarily mean I use
AFK 'reactive' scripts. (Don't all scripts react?) I just like to
be able to sit and listen to the game.... Plus an in-game
presence should make others think twice before hitting my figs.

My take on what Mongoose is saying is that it's not that he was attacked, it's the fact that there was no time to do anything about it that bothers him. So he's not trying to take away your ability to attack him, he'd just like to be aware of it before he's #SD#. It is an issue.

Not all scripts are reactive. Many scripts just parse through expected game output and carry out a defined task. What makes it reactive is when it triggers on player events and interacts with the player in response to those events. They're very different uses of scripts. One is just automating tedious tasks, something most people agree there's a need for, while the other can cross the line into bot territory. Not that there's a problem with using bots to play this game, just that some people don't like it and want to be able to avoid it in their games.

He, or his script, chose to hit my fighters. He didn't have to enter the
sector, he could have scanned and saw it was occupied.

As he chose to enter a sector with my fighter, he could've done it
quickly, in a macro, and probably would've been ok.


I don't mind an anti-script, or anti-lurker style game edit, not my
cup of tea, but there is certainly a place for it. But if not one
red corp comes around, perhaps that in itself is worth noting.

Why not just test it on your home server with a couple dupe teams?

Sure, I made that point myself earlier. I don't think this is the right audience for this kind of edit. Nothing wrong with that. You can't force people to play a game style they're not interested in playing. Unfortunately, that fact is precisely why so many have gone away, because they haven't had a choice to play the kind of game style they do like to play. Not in public games, at least. In private games, that's a different story, and that's why the vast majority of activity is in private games. But how do you reach those players and convince them that there are fun games to play on public server X? That's an uphill battle.

I don't really see how it's a "Choice" when everyone is gridding, and you can't move without attacking someone's figs.

The speed at which commands can be executed - scripts and burst macros will always respond faster than a person can type.

Now, if you have the input emulation set slow down and fast up. Think of this scenerio - two players in the same sector, macro ay5000^M say that takes .25s the manual player need only hit < to retreat the the previous sector to avoid the attack then move to a safe sector. The manual player may still get hit, he needs good eye-hand coordination to type < faster than the macro can type ay5000^M. But, if the manual player is held back with ship movement delays, he's going to get toasted every time.