quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar

Let us just agree to disagree then. On EIS Forums moderators come and go anyway. What is the point of playing when bigbang will be run and everything in the universe will be lost to create a new universe?


Moderators come and go? In the entire time I have been posting on EIS (since 2001, maybe?), there have been 3 moderators. Rave, Rick, and myself. Rave died, at which point I became a moderator. How is that "moderators come and go"?

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar

Let us just agree to disagree then. On EIS Forums moderators come and go anyway. What is the point of playing when bigbang will be run and everything in the universe will be lost to create a new universe?


Moderators come and go? In the entire time I have been posting on EIS (since 2001, maybe?), there have been 3 moderators. Rave, Rick, and myself. Rave died, at which point I became a moderator. How is that "moderators come and go"?


It was a joke, seesh.

nothing against zen or anyone in here but, did you guys actually read zens response to "best way to moth a planet" or just see it was so long and skip it and assume it was the right awnser? the first several times i skipped it and went off others responses saying zen had provided a good response, but after quickly skimming it this time i noticed it had no mention of figuring out how hard the cannon blasts were hitting for and to moth with just enough figs to trigger whatever blast you wanted without wasting figs, that seems like a main point when it comes to mothing yet it wasnt mentioned.

Nope, I made it through the first 2 or three paragraphs, and that was about it. I can never concentrate long enough to read his posts.

wow! ok well for thoses of you who dont know how to figure out how to determine how hard a q-cannon will hit for heres a script for you.

simply input into the script the total bpd sustained for 2 consecutitive blasts and you will be told how much ore the planet started with, how much is left, and how hard the third blast will be.
Use the 2nd and 3rd blast bpd to give you the info on the 4th blast , and so forth.

# Script Title : Cannon Blast Calculator
# :
# instructions : Input the blast data from 2 consecutive mothing's and it back
# : calculates both the quasar cannon setting and the ore on the
# : planet. Use the Menu to select between "Sector",
# : "MBBS - Atmosphere", or "TWGS - Atmosphere"
# : type blasts. Very useful for planning invasions.
# :
# Version : 2.01
# :
# Notes : Calculations are based on -
# : Sector: cannon percent * ore / 3
# : MBBS Atmo: cannon percent * ore * 2
# : TWGS Atmo: cannon percent * ore / 2
# :
#Written by : Noble Research & Development Team
#================================================================================================

:Main_Menu

echo "* * *"
echo ANSI_9 "===== " ANSI_14 "Cannon Blast Calculator" ANSI_9 " =====**"
echo ANSI_14 " 1" ANSI_10 " Sector (MMBS / TWGS) *"
echo ANSI_14 " 2" ANSI_10 " Atmosphere - MBBS *"
echo ANSI_14 " 3" ANSI_10 " Atmosphere - TWGS **"
echo ANSI_14 " 4" ANSI_10 " Exit **"
echo ANSI_9 "=============================== *"
echo ANSI_14 "Selection: "
getConsoleInput $menu_selection YES
#isNumber $menu_test $menu_selection
#if ($menu_test <> 1)
#echo ANSI_12 "** BAD INPUT - MUST BE A NUMBER!**"
#goto :main_menu
#end
if ($menu_selection > 0) AND ($menu_selection <= 4)
echo "*"
if ($menu_selection = 1)
echo "*"
setVar $type "Sector"
getInput $blast_1 ANSI_14&"How much "&ANSI_12&"TOTAL"&ANSI_14&" damage was done by "&ANSI_12&"Blast #1? "
getInput $blast_2 ANSI_14&"How much "&ANSI_12&"TOTAL"&ANSI_14&" damage was done by "&ANSI_12&"Blast #2? "
goto :Sector_Calc
end
if ($menu_selection = 2)
echo "*"
setVar $type "Atmosphere (MBBS Mode)"
getInput $blast_1 ANSI_14&"How much "&ANSI_12&"TOTAL"&ANSI_14&" damage was done by "&ANSI_12&"Blast #1? "
getInput $blast_2 ANSI_14&"How much "&ANSI_12&"TOTAL"&ANSI_14&" damage was done by "&ANSI_12&"Blast #2? "
goto :MBBS_Calc
end
if ($menu_selection = 3)
echo "*"
setVar $type "Atmosphere (TWGS Mode)"
getInput $blast_1 ANSI_14&"How much "&ANSI_12&"TOTAL"&ANSI_14&" damage was done by "&ANSI_12&"Blast #1? "
getInput $blast_2 ANSI_14&"How much "&ANSI_12&"TOTAL"&ANSI_14&" damage was done by "&ANSI_12&"Blast #2? "
goto :TWGS_Calc
end
if ($menu_selection = 4)
echo ANSI_9 "*Script Ended Properly*"
halt
end
else
echo "*"
echo ANSI_12 "BAD INPUT - TRY AGAIN!"
goto :main_menu
end


:Sector_Calc
setVar $ore_blast_1 $blast_1
multiply $ore_blast_1 3
setVar $ore_blast_2 $blast_2
multiply $ore_blast_2 3
setVar $ore_difference $ore_blast_1
subtract $ore_difference $ore_blast_2
setVar $decimal_conversion $ore_difference
multiply $decimal_conversion 101
setVar $cannon_percentage $decimal_conversion
divide $cannon_percentage $ore_blast_1
setVar $original_ore $ore_blast_1
multiply $original_ore 100
divide $original_ore $cannon_percentage
setVar $after_1st_blast $original_ore
subtract $after_1st_blast $ore_blast_1
setVar $after_2nd_blast $after_1st_blast
subtract $after_2nd_blast $ore_blast_2
setVar $next_blast $after_2nd_blast
multiply $next_blast $cannon_percentage
divide $next_blast 300
goto isplay

:MBBS_Calc
setVar $ore_blast_1 $blast_1
divide $ore_blast_1 2
setVar $ore_blast_2 $blast_2
divide $ore_blast_2 2
setVar $ore_difference $ore_blast_1
subtract $ore_difference $ore_blast_2
setVar $decimal_conversion $ore_difference
multiply $decimal_conversion 101
setVar $cannon_percentage $decimal_conversion
divide $cannon_percentage $ore_blast_1
setVar $original_ore $ore_blast_1
multiply $original_ore 100
divide $original_ore $cannon_percentage
setVar $after_1st_blast $original_ore
subtract $after_1st_blast $ore_blast_1
setVar $after_2nd_blast $after_1st_blast
subtract $after_2nd_blast $ore_blast_2
setVar $next_blast $after_2nd_blast
multiply $next_blast $cannon_percentage
divide $next_blast 50
goto isplay


:TWGS_Calc
setVar $ore_blast_1 $blast_1
multiply $ore_blast_1 2
setVar $ore_blast_2 $blast_2
multiply $ore_blast_2 2
setVar $ore_difference $ore_blast_1
subtract $ore_difference $ore_blast_2
setVar $decimal_conversion $ore_difference
multiply $decimal_conversion 101
setVar $cannon_percentage $decimal_conversion
divide $cannon_percentage $ore_blast_1
setVar $original_ore $ore_blast_1
multiply $original_ore 100
divide $original_ore $cannon_percentage
setVar $after_1st_blast $original_ore
subtract $after_1st_blast $ore_blast_1
setVar $after_2nd_blast $after_1st_blast
subtract $after_2nd_blast $ore_blast_2
setVar $next_blast $after_2nd_blast
multiply $next_blast $cannon_percentage
divide $next_blast 200
goto isplay

isplay
echo ANSI_9&"** ==== " ANSI_14&"Q-Cannon Calculation Results" ANSI_9&" ==== **"
echo ANSI_10&" Cannon Setting: " ANSI_12&$cannon_percentage ANSI_10&" % - "& ANSI_12&$type "**"
echo ANSI_10&" Initial Ore : " ANSI_14&$original_ore ANSI_10&" Units Ore*"
echo " After 1st Blast: " ANSI_14&$after_1st_blast ANSI_10&" Units Ore*"
echo " After 2nd Blast: " ANSI_14&$after_2nd_blast ANSI_10&" Units Ore**"
echo ANSI_11&" Next Blast Projection: " ANSI_12&$next_blast ANSI_11&" Damage Points**"

Oh and Stockton, you said this
"and to moth with just enough figs to trigger whatever blast you wanted without wasting figs"
this is nothing you can control as the q fires at a rate that is dependant on how much ore is on the planet and how the owner has the cannon % set. You will either surive or you wont.

So trying to force the cannon to fire how you want it to is not possible. But after you know how much ore is on the planet and how the cannon is set so you know how hard the next blast will hit for.
You can then carry into the blast enough fighters to survive it.
So why are you going after me for not posting specific information when you are posting information like this?

Perhaps some users of this forum should instead of pointing out any ommisions in a post attempting to make someone look bad, Post the proper questions asking for the missing information.
So that the proper enviroment of support can begin to manifest it self.

Yea I read the whole thing it was based on the fact the there are many different variables involved in determining a proper mothing method it was not anything to detailed or specific in there other then his base statement of the differences between stock settings, gold, and MBBS. No it didn’t completely answer the question but then again the question asked was vague and left a lot of open holes that would have to be assumed to fully give a correct answer.

Now if the question was.

What would be the best method to moth a class L planet online invasion style in a MBBS game that was 10 days old at stock settings with planets at ½ cit times and a corpie sitting over the plant in a guardian ship with a reloader on.

You would get a more specific answer.

Zen that’s a nice script and everything and thank you for putting it up but I think people would learn more if you just listed the math equations for arriving at the answer.

I have this from an old friend I no longer talk to much but it is informative regarding mothing.

Psion (4:10 PM) :
From this it is easy to determine how much ore is left on a planet after you have had two blasts. The formula for this is: percent = (1 - (second hit / first hit)) * 100. To find the total ore on the planet before that blast was fired, you use the formula: (sector blast * 3) / (percent / 100). You then subtract the amount of ore that was just used for the last blast from that number and you have the current amount of ore on that planet. If you take that times the percent it is firing at and then divide it by three you will have the strength of the next quasar blast. It is often useful to add 50-100 damage on to this, as there will likely be colonists producing ore.

Sometimes the best way to answer a vauge question is with another question.

Try a closed question, one that has two possible answers, like a yes or no question:

"Do you mean the best way to moth a planet based on stock settings?"

Hopefully the person asking the question will answer yes or no, in odd cases they might even give more details as to what they want.

Going off and trying to answer a vauge question is very hard to do. You need to ask more specific questions to try and figure out what the question asker wants.

I admit that Zen put a lot of throught into his answer, and sorry for getting on his case for taking 16 hours or whatever to respond. I did notice that he neglected to mention P-Torp settings and if I read more into it, I would have noticed what Speed Demon did.

Still Zen's answer satisfies me that he has a good working knowledge of Tradewars.

zen i think everyone but you knows i didnt mean you could try to get the cannon to hit for what you want it to, i meant after you know what it is hitting for you should use the minimum amount of figs to trigger whatever cannon u want to deplete so as to not waste figs, i think this is a key point in an awnser to a question that asks what is the best way to moth a planet yet it was not in your response.

As to the original question, it was a very vague one as has since been posted. I answered it covering the salient points and left it that way, I was not going to go into all the details of all the potential possibilities of mothing.

After all this is a post to a text game forum, NOT a Doctoral Theseus.

But if users want to hold me to an increased level of contextual quality and grammatical consistency and extreme factual accuracy, then Stockton, the next time you as one user of these forums make a post that is critical of a post someone makes you need to have your ducks in a row and post what you mean, not what you think everyone (or anyone) should think you mean.

Lets illustrate what I mean.

Stockton wrote
"i meant after you know what it is hitting for you should use the minimum amount of figs to trigger whatever cannon u want to deplete so as to not waste figs"

WTH ?

1st : Come on you either survive entering the sector with a full load of figs and shields or you don't, Whats this minimum amount of figs crap? Don't you ever expect the owner to log in and catch you and change a setting or two on you? Or perhaps a 3rd party gets involved? Or the server to drop from under you leaving you with "minimum" figs to try and survive a login attempt in hostile territory.

Yes in the above example I only considered that Stockton was invading an offline owners planet. Theres many other variables that can change this. Dead corp or owner, entire corp ptoned in another sector, entire corp iged and defenseles in another sector. ect...
However other factors would still preclude the use of the "minimum" fig invasion tactic as reckless and a mistake more often then not.

2nd : This leads the reader to think there's multiple cannons, as the word "whatever" in this context is plural.

3rd : This sentence fragment is also deceptive. "whatever cannon u want to deplete so as to not waste figs", This leads the reader to think that the invader can choose the order of planet q-cannon fireings. This is not true as the order of fireings of the q-cannons comes from the numerical order of the planets that have q-cannons on them in that specific sector.

quote:
1st : Come on you either survive entering the sector with a full load of figs and shields or you don't, Whats this minimum amount of figs crap? Don't you ever expect the owner to log in and catch you and change a setting or two on you? Or perhaps a 3rd party gets involved? Or the server to drop from under you leaving you with "minimum" figs to try and survive a login attempt in hostile territory.

If you don't survive the blasts, you don't want to keep wasting figs. Say you trigger 3 cannons. From figuring the cannon blasts, you know that the first one is going to hit for 30k damange, the second for 40k damage, and the 3rd for 90k damage. Your ship will take 150k damage. You want to take 70,001 figs instead of 150k figs. Either way you are podded, either way you drain the same ore from the planet. However, if you take 70,001 figs, you save yourself 80k figs. So long as you're going fast enough, it is extremely unlikely the enemy will catch you and adjust the cannons for that. As to trying to survive a login attempt with "minimum" figs, it would appear you don't understand this tactic. Minimum figs is when you take a pod, not when you are taking the sector.

quote:
However other factors would still preclude the use of the "minimum" fig invasion tactic as reckless and a mistake more often then not.

Personally, I find wasting 80k figs a mistake more often than not.

quote:
2nd : This leads the reader to think there's multiple cannons, as the word "whatever" in this context is plural.

Minimum figs applies to a single planet doing more damage than one ship can take, as well. In this case, minimum figs is 0.

quote:
3rd : This sentence fragment is also deceptive. "whatever cannon u want to deplete so as to not waste figs", This leads the reader to think that the invader can choose the order of planet q-cannon fireings. This is not true as the order of fireings of the q-cannons comes from the numerical order of the planets that have q-cannons on them in that specific sector.


Planets fire in the order they show in the sector. However, you may not always be trying to get all cannons to fire. For example, there may be 5 planets in the sector, but the first 3 are podding you. In this case, you probably want to use minimum figs for the 3rd planet's shot. Alternately, the ship to get the 3rd planet to fire may be prohitabtively expensive, so you use a cheaper ship and aim for the second planet. In this way, you choose which planet you want.

Zentock, man, you shouldn't have tried to get into detail.

ANYTIME you 'waste' figs on a cannon blast, ur screwing yourself, your team, and everyone but the team your invading... Photon thru if you can, drop off a few moth ships, xport in, and land... simple as that, tear those Darn cannons apart if you have to, if you can photon in and invade without mothing, more power to ya, but use a Darn moth ship, don't waste the resources...

you can enter the sector with loaded L6 H's in a merf, and still drain the cannons just as much as a loaded ISS....

and no, the mines, or offensive fighters (if there are any) will NOT hit ur mothship first.. the cannons are the first to fire upon sector entry.

I don't give a rats tail if it's an unlimited game and you have unlimited resources, of if the game has a death limit of 5... FIgure out who lives the longest/most and use them to moth first, even if the cannons only hit for a total of 3k sector, it's better knowing that in advance, than losing a loaded ISS....

I was recently in an unlimited game with a few friends, and honestly, yeah, I used a moth ship, I was laughed at for doing it, but I captured the planets for a fraction of the cost (by figged ship method it would have ran around 1.8 bil) I was able to do it for 812 mil. Didn't save me a lick of time, but since when is invading properly suppose to save time?

was I worried about people entering the sector? yup, that's why I had photons on my boat... was I worried about getting destroyed, or the cannon settings changing, not really, either way the outcome would have been hte same, the planet would have belonged to me before the end of the day.

simple answer:
don't waste resources when mothing/invading planets. Do it wisely, use a moth, not a loaded ship, drain it slowly, if there is a death limit, and ur worried about maxing out.... just CBY, a chicken**** does a corp no good anyway. We're here to win, not have the least deaths.

my 2 cents

zen "what is the best way to moth a planet" is not all that vague. Let others account for the variables such as people at keys, ptorps, death limit and all that other stuff. Your awnser could of specified on the exact method to moth a planet yet your long rambling awnsered about 20 other questions besides the one posed to you. I was busting your balls in the first place as i could care less who moderates and if you are a genius or a mongoloid, but since you have gotten so defensive i think i will continue this line of questioning... so here is your next question. In a big game with many ships and traders at dock, how do you go about trying to kill a red who is busting at dock in the beginning of the game?

quote:Originally posted by Grazhoppa

and no, the mines, or offensive fighters (if there are any) will NOT hit ur mothship first.. the cannons are the first to fire upon sector entry.



Mines and haz come before cannon blasts

quote:

FIgure out who lives the longest/most and use them to moth first, even if the cannons only hit for a total of 3k sector, it's better knowing that in advance, than losing a loaded ISS....



Typically, I will use a loaded ship for the first moth (depending on who I'm playing against). I want to know the most I can about those planets, that why I can fine tune future moths. Spending 6-8 deaths with low fig moths only to find out you haven't drained enough ore is a waste.

Thank you Harley for putting ALL of us up on the errors we have posted, This is why your THE MAN!.

quote:Originally posted by Zentock

Thank you Harley for putting ALL of us up on the errors we have posted, This is why your THE MAN!.





he might be the man at TW but i still pwn his Butt in rogue v rogue duel in WoW