Hehehe, Bone Collector, I just had to put my 2 cents in here and defend Doc Who and his team, considering that I was on that team: You know just as well as I do that your team was using a bot to cause your planets to pwarp out if we entered the sector. One of the planets did get away, but the one that mattered didn't. The reason for this was that someone made a mistake and ran the bot in the wrong citadel. This has nothing to do with how long a person was at the keys. I seriously doubt that Doc Who spent any more time at keys than Kemper did, and with 15-man teams you would think SOMEONE would be around at all hours. (Indeed they were, Sgt. Rock gave your location away when he charged down our grid, straight from your base to SD, moments before we invaded.) Also, Menudo was online, in the citadel in the other planet.

I guess my point is that both types of games have valid (but differing) strategies, and both types of games appeal to different people for different reasons. A well-rounded player should be able to adjust his strategy to suit the circumstances and the edits. A true test of all-round skill would perhaps be a series of three games: one with low turns, one with medium turns, and one with unlim turns. The edits would not be released before the game began, so that each team would have to figure things out for themselves (and perhaps write scripts on the fly to satisfy the necessities that arose.) Such a series, if all 3 games were won by the same team, would surely indicate that the team in question truly excelled at all forms and styles of tradewars play.

galaxi

I think all you script people are a disgrace to the game of Tradewars. The game is called TRADEwars, not BOTwars, or SCRIPTwars. I can see using a program like SWATH to remember ports for you to trade at so you don't have to write them down, or even let it trade out the port for you. Colonization... in other words any task that would require you to put the same number in over and over again by hand.

But if you're playing Half Life YOU are not playing Tradewars YOUR BOT is, and thus you are cheating. I would love to have a REAL game of trade wars with Stock Ships, stock planets, and scripting only for mundane tasks.

I'm dead certain that the designers of Tradewars didn't have a Bot staying in the game 24 hours a day to photon anyone who comes into a sector, destroying a port while someone is docked at it for less than a second to kill them, or any of the other cheap crap/game bug exploits you Scripters abuse as a fair and fun part of the game.

Tradewars is about who can play the GAME the best, not about who can write the best script to play for them.

Actually, Hrvat, the game of Tradwars as it is played today seems to be diverging into two distinct categories: the "Traditionalist" type, where the turns are usually lower and the emphasis is on the "thinking man's" strategic methodology, and the "ScriptWars" type, where turns are very high in number, or unlimited, and the emphasis is on developing scripting technology and being fast at the keys. Both types of play are equally valid, regardless of what the original game developers had in mind.

I find it kind of amusing that you so strongly diss the "script" method of play, and but still allow for certain repetitive functions to be classified as "non-scripting." And yet, by your own definition, a script would be "okay" if it saved the user from typing in the same number over and over by hand. Well, if I want to sit in my citadel in my little dead end and try to fire a photon every time someone hits my grid "just in case" the person hits the fighter in the adjacent sector, isn't this the same thing as you just describe as "okay?"

After all, I'd be typing in the same numbers over and over. =)

galaxi

Amen EOD

I think you put the emPHAsis on the wrong SYLLable, Hrvat... it is TradeWARS as much as TRADEwars.

Wars are won by those who play the best, not always those with the best technology. When you combine both good playing with good technology, though, you get winning for sure. Your arguing against scripting is like the Iraquis *****ing about smartbombs. Don't like it? Write a script that counters it. Any script can be outwitted...supposing you have the wit to do it. So get it on, quit your complaining, or change your name to Hfwit and start your own server.

So basically what you are saying is, say in a first-person shooter someone is using a bot to kill you over and over, you shouldn't whine about them cheating, you should get out there and hack the game better than they did, come back and beat them, yeah!

There is a reason why any use of 3rd party programs in conjunction with a game is always considered cheating and against user agreements where applicable, it gives you an unfair advantage over everyone else.

Galaxi, you may be right when you say it has evolved into two different types of game, but if that is the case then people need to keep the two seperate, keep your scripts and bots to a script and bot game. I only play low turn games for this reason, i like to avoid that kind of playing. I grew up on the original tradewars and thus that is what i enjoy.

quote:Originally posted by Hrvat

I think all you script people are a disgrace to the game of Tradewars. The game is called TRADEwars, not BOTwars, or SCRIPTwars. I can see using a program like SWATH to remember ports for you to trade at so you don't have to write them down, or even let it trade out the port for you. Colonization... in other words any task that would require you to put the same number in over and over again by hand.

But if you're playing Half Life YOU are not playing Tradewars YOUR BOT is, and thus you are cheating. I would love to have a REAL game of trade wars with Stock Ships, stock planets, and scripting only for mundane tasks.

I'm dead certain that the designers of Tradewars didn't have a Bot staying in the game 24 hours a day to photon anyone who comes into a sector, destroying a port while someone is docked at it for less than a second to kill them, or any of the other cheap crap/game bug exploits you Scripters abuse as a fair and fun part of the game.

Tradewars is about who can play the GAME the best, not about who can write the best script to play for them.


If the world went by this philosophy, our wars would still be fought by standing in a big line and shooting across a field and seeing who lasts the longest.

Technology advances, deal with it.

Scripts of almost any type are available to ANYONE who wants to play the game. If you think they are unfair, it is because you don't have them.. Get them..

SupG

quote:Originally posted by Hecubis

So basically what you are saying is, say in a first-person shooter someone is using a bot to kill you over and over, you shouldn't whine about them cheating, you should get out there and hack the game better than they did, come back and beat them, yeah!

There is a reason why any use of 3rd party programs in conjunction with a game is always considered cheating and against user agreements where applicable, it gives you an unfair advantage over everyone else.

Galaxi, you may be right when you say it has evolved into two different types of game, but if that is the case then people need to keep the two seperate, keep your scripts and bots to a script and bot game. I only play low turn games for this reason, i like to avoid that kind of playing. I grew up on the original tradewars and thus that is what i enjoy.


Last I checked TradeWars isn't a first person shooter. Tradewars is a game of wits, not pure speed and hand eye coordination. It would be stupid not to use the tools available to you to win the game if they are legal. Go find a server that doesn't allow scripting if you don't like it.

BTW, for the most part, the most elaborate scripts are written for low turn games. Data-mining and turn conservation are much more important with less turns, thus a smarter more detailed script is required. Staying in low turn games won't avoid us script monkeys.

SupG

Wow. I 'grew up' on 5k sector games with 2k turns/day, no helpers, no nothing other than my fingers and a keyboard. I went to TWAR then TWAR for windows which i found to be very buggy and now use ATTAC. GLADLY will I use a helper to colonize, explore/trade, trade, etc rather than sitting at a keyboard for hours doing individual keystrokes to do the same thing. Point of fact, due to back injuries and operations, I CAN'T sit for hours. I'll readily admit I use scripts and wouldn't THINK about dissing anyone for writing scripts that would help him/her win a game. I've been planet dropped before and no, it's not a good feeling but it's also part of a winning strategy. I'd also readily admit that most of you would clean my clock without breaking a sweat with or without scrips. BUT, everytime my clock got cleaned, I'd learn something. The name of the game is Tradewars. You can put whatever emphasis on it that you want. The end goal is the same. To win and win in the most cost effective way you can.

I see your brain is incapable of drawing a simple analogy. Btw, last i checked Tradewars is a game, not the real world. Monopoly is old as hell and it's played exactly the same today as it was when it was made, you don't see Bots out there selling houses on the fly and putting them down while someone is moving right to the spot they are gonna land. Darn that's kinda a complicated analogy for you, hope you don't misunderstand again:(

The way I see it is this:

Scripts are ok as long as everyone is able to use them. The only exception would be the script writers who develop their own scripts. They have a secret weapon that the others don't have because they know how to write their own scripts.

I know this is about Grazhoppa being in the LotR game for over 24 hours and attacking everything that moved. But his attack can be countered if players played a smart way. Like load up an escape pod with carbo and let him attack it. Or get a ship with 4.0 defense odds and max it out and let him attack that, and repeat until all his figs are gone. Then come in with an attack ship full of shields and figs and take him out.

Personally I feel that ship to ship battles just waste figs, I'd rather use them to defend planets where they have better odds. Which is why I didn't challenge Graz when he was in attack mode. Instead I avoided his figs, and colonized other planets from Terra as everyone else in the game had forgotten about Terra and was busy trying to take out Graz. I upgraded a Class O planet to cash in the org each day so I had a way to make money even if I couldn't go out and PPT without getting podded. Since I was blue with a Federal Commision, I could transwarp into sector 1.

Also there is a debate if Graz really ran an attack script or not. He claims he didn't, Hrvat and Simon say he did. At least what he might have run was a keepalive script to avoid being logged out.

LMAO. Monopoly as an anology for Tradewars...that doesn't stand up under ANY scrutiny. Weak-a** anology, dude.

1. Everything that a script does is within the confines of legal Tradewars play; that is, they follow all rules of game play the same way a player manually entering the commands does. Your idiocy of talking about Monopoly bots placing houses on the fly and crap does NOT follow the rules of Monopoly game play. Scripts, to reference your first-person shooter analogy, are NOT hacking the code, as you implied.

2. Monopoly is a BOARD GAME. How are you gonna write a script to play a board game for you? It exists in physical reality and is therefore subject to the confines of that physical reality. The came cannot be modified like Tradewars, which I may mention, is a COMPUTER game. You DO know the difference, right?

3. Tradewars is a scion of the computer era, which changes faster than any technology in history. Do you play it on the internet? I thought you were old-school? Why don't you dial in on a 2800 baud modem to a local BBS the way you USED to play it - that is what you are after, correct? Stupid Luddites.

Actually it's a 2400 baud modem, and i don't have my commodore 64 anymore:D

In no way am i against technology, that is a bad analogy on your part, it's a game we're talking about here. If you are so high-tech then why are you playing a game from 1983? Why doesn't one of you brilliant script-writers take it upon yourself to make a more current version complete with an auto-pilot mode that does everything for you, with little user inputs now and then=p

You script guys just don't get it. Yeah firing photons is part of the game everything a BOT does is part of the game, but some things are HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DO WITHOUT THE USE OF A BOT(or as you call them scripts) AND THUS THEY ARE CHEATING.

You can use a Bot to colonize, or your you can type it in. You can trade with a bot or you can do it by hand...

No human being is fast enough to instantly warp a plannet to a sector before the sector fighter is destroyed. If you can do this please let me know. Matter of fact I'll pay anyone $5,000 who can hit me with a plannet if I bump into a random fighter of their's in a 10,000 sector universe. I'll pay someone $50,000 if they can stay awake for 10 days straight in front of my planet and hit me with a photon every time I come near it.

That's the point I'm making, you know it in your hearts that doing things like that is cheating, but you do it anyway because "everyone else is doing it" .

So you've got two types of tradewars now. One where there is an arms race to see who can make the best cheat program, and one where people play the game as it was intended to be played. Oh but wait... that type doesn't exist anymore because of cheating bastards like you.

It's a game about trading and crap, not a lesson in computer programming.

I would love to have a game where Bots were illegal, hell I'd even go without my automated trading and colonizing just to prove a ponit to you. Sadly it would be too hard to enforce, and none of you scripters would have the balls to play it.

As for the Iraq **** and smart bombs, like the other guy said it's not real life, it's a game and in a game there should be a level playing field.

You ever wonder why it's mostly only you pathetic scripters left playing Tradewars? It's because any new player that comes around trying to play the game the way it was intended to be played doesn't stand a chance against someone running a Bot 24/7. If Bots were intended to be a fair part of the game there would be a BOTS sub menu built into the game... but there isn't is there.

This is my last attempt to get through to you "scripters" but I know it's hopless. You've been cheating for so long you think it's a part of the game. Hemmm maybe if I got the creators of Tradewars in here and they told you that you were cheating you would believe them.

Kemper, please tell me if this is legally binding

cuz I'm about to get 50k

if not, please delete it.. if it is submissable as evidence, can you please print it with his IP and snail it to me?

Hvrat, I accept your offer. I will stay up 10 days straight and photon your Butt by hand, or pdrop you by hand.. with any witness of your choice, hell, you can even pay for their flight.

graz