quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord
It's actually quite humorous really.


You have posted some crazy stuff in these forums in the short time you have been around, but this has to take the cake. I don't know you, have never seen you before you started posting here and have no idea why you would want to fabricate such wildly off the wall accusations but whatever your reasons are, your claims don’t even warrant a response. I have discussions with people I feel are worth discussing things with, and Didaskalos, is good at debating a subject which is why this thread went on as long as it did, you on the other hand… well to be honest your just not worth the effort.

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

quote:It was simply to point out that the mechanism used to root out problems was A) largely ineffective and B) not something that I find an admirable method of programming
When presented with trying to fix a bug you are unable to ever reproduce in a test environment, what would you suggest be done differently to "root out problems"?


there is no voodoo in programming. 'bug' reports are either a result of a misperception of the user or a real problem with the code. i have not come across a situation where i was unable to reproduce an error, sometimes at great cost in time to tracking it down. I don't think JP is incapable of tracking down errors in the program. He simply doesn't wish to spend the time doing it himself, when he has other people that will do it for him, albeit in a less efficient manner.

quote:I don't know you, have never seen you before you started posting here and have no idea why you would want to fabricate such wildly off the wall accusations but whatever your reasons are, your claims don’t even warrant a response.


OH, a flat out denial, what a surprise!

You either are an incredible liar, or you have wronged so many people over the years you just don't remember them all.

I can tell you this! Mel Barnhardt, aka Cyberweasal, aka Toad can verify

1. I was his team leader at the 2nd Battle of the Elite
2. Gypsy took offense to my use of Supreme Galactic Overlord causing
open contravercy.
3. Numerous angry letters were exchanged.
4. Eventually I was locked out of the tournament for no apparent reason.

Now, maybe your not the Gypsy who ran the War Room. Perhaps It's a case of mistaken identity. If not, then, the next time you decide to impersonate someone's identity, don't pick such a notorious and legendary Butt to impersonate.

I find it amazing, however, most of all, that I started out in this string trying to defend your position (though I can't defend your sarcastic, hurtful, and egomaniacal method which you deliver that position), and what was my reward? Another insulting quip from you! Apparently, Rick Mead is so caught up in his own false sense of grandiosity, and is so convinced that he's the center of his own little twars world that he's created in his mind, that if you aren't a part of that inner circle, he'll insult you even if you AGREE with him!

I would urge therapy, but frankly, I don't think it would help! I imagine you are convinced there's nothing wrong with YOU, it's the rest of the world that is messed up.

eh
that year's bote was run at outlaw bbs, with budweiser as a gameop

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord

You either are an incredible liar, or you have wronged so many people over the years you just don't remember them all.
I have met 1000's of people in my time involved with this game, and yes I don't remember everyone, especially those who aren't worth remembering

quote:I can tell you this! Mel Barnhardt, aka Cyberweasal, aka Toad can verify
I don’t think I know this guy either

quote:1. I was his team leader at the 2nd Battle of the Elite
I wasn't involved with the 2nd BOTE, it was run on Outlaw I believe and Budweiser was the Sysop
quote:2. Gypsy took offense to my use of Supreme Galactic Overlord causing open contravercy.
I don't recall ever meeting you, but If I did back in 98 and you used that name I have no doubt I would have bashed you for using a famous in game name as your call sign, given the fact you don't play the game very well or have very much knowledge of the game now (which is evident from your posts here) after what 6 years from the time period you are talking about I would only be able to assume you were really bad then, so I won't even argue that I bashed you, I am sure I did as I wasn't as nice as I am now then.
quote:3. Numerous angry letters were exchanged.
are you saying I have sent you mail? because then I just have to say not only are you fabricating this but you are delusional as well
quote:4. Eventually I was locked out of the tournament for no apparent reason. If you were locked out of the 2nd BOTE, that’s a shame but Budweiser was notorious for deleting loud mouth scrubs, but you should take it up with him.

quote:Now, maybe your not the Gypsy who ran the War Room. Perhaps It's a case of mistaken identity. If not, then, the next time you decide to impersonate someone's identity, don't pick such a notorious and legendary Butt to impersonate.
its common knowledge who I am and what I have done

quote:I find it amazing, however, most of all, that I started out in this string trying to defend your position (though I can't defend your sarcastic, hurtful, and egomaniacal method which you deliver that position), and what was my reward? Another insulting quip from you! Apparently, Rick Mead is so caught up in his own false sense of grandiosity, and is so convinced that he's the center of his own little twars world that he's created in his mind, that if you aren't a part of that inner circle, he'll insult you even if you AGREE with him!
I find it amazing that you are claiming I insulted you... where in any previous post in this whole thread, on this whole board for that matter have I ever insulted you? I mean really I am curious, I know that Harley had a problem with you, and I stepped in on that but really other then that what great insults have I made to you? Maybe that's the problem I don't show you enough attention because for the most part generally I ignore inconsequential people, so in order to try and get some attention you post wild fabrications about bug use about not only me but people like Hosem, Monday, Black Slayer, Maverick and everyone else who played and won at The Stardock. Now if you have a self esteem problem and just have to have attention that's fine but trying to be smudge the good name of such generally respected and legendary former players of this game isn't the way to go about it.

quote:I would urge therapy, but frankly, I don't think it would help! I imagine you are convinced there's nothing wrong with YOU, it's the rest of the world that is messed up.
I would urge that you follow the advise given to you by JP, because your quota is about up

I hate to interrupt this entertaining "How to Program" thread, but SGO outside of posting for the sake of posting, if you don't understand what they are talking about, then how can you comment?
quote:I don't have a clue about programming.SGO

Ok, listen, I have no clue what you are talking about, let's get that straight. I'm not a programmer, heck I have trouble USING programs.SGO

I'm not a programmer but this sounds like it's a miracle the game even works at all! My hat's off to you.SGO quote:

Do us all a favour and just READ.
BTW - on your next post (because we all know there is one coming) you can avoid telling us all about your lack of programming experience
Zoso

quote:quote:[i]I can tell you this! Mel Barnhardt, aka Cyberweasal, aka Toad can verify
I don’t think I know this guy either

He was the sysop for Twars.com, the second server to run and beta test the TWGS (to my knowledge anyway). See, Rick, the problem is no matter how "significant" a person is, if they aren't in your "circle" they are insignificant to you. Every time you post you prove my points.

quote:
I wasn't involved with the 2nd BOTE, it was run on Outlaw I believe and Budweiser was the Sysop

Ok, you got me there, perhaps I'm mixed up, it has been a long time. Maybe it was the first battle of the Elite. I only know it was held at the War Room and you were officiating (or perhaps you weren't at all you just touted yourself as such, now THAT I could believe.
quote:
I don't recall ever meeting you, but If I did back in 98 and you used that name I have no doubt I would have bashed you for using a famous in game name as your call sign, given the fact you don't play the game very well

Wow! For someone who doesn't even know anything about me you sure do seem to claim to know quite a bit about me. Why don't you make up your mind.

And to answer your question, yes I was pretty bad back then but it was because I flat out REFUSED to use any helpers of any kind, and considered them "cheating." I did everything by hand and I didn't take the game nearly as seriously as some of the others in those tourneys. To me it was supposed to be fun, thought that's why they called it a "game."
quote:
are you saying I have sent you mail? because then I just have to say not only are you fabricating this but you are delusional as well

Well, your memory is subjective, because you ticked me off so bad we exchanged several emails, and in fact, I threatened to sue you for slander heheh (Like I could ever find a lawyer to take that one).

quote:
where in any previous post in this whole thread, on this whole board for that matter have I ever insulted you?

Heh, your very first response to me in this thread was an insult, just by your choice of quotes. Please, insult my intelligence all you want, but don't insult everyone else's intelligence too. They can read.

quote:
I would urge that you follow the advise given to you by JP, because your quota is about up

I'm not sure what you are meaning by this, but heck if you want to ban me again for something I say in smack talk, feel free, it's your forum. Yet, I'm sure that the other users here will take note of it and finally see that you don't even follow your own rules.

As far as any advice I received from John, that's between he and I now isn't it? You can't possibly have any first hand knowledge of anything that has been said between me and John. Trust me!

Sorry for the back to back post.

I'm sorry people for turning this into a flame Rick Mead session. It wasn't my intent, if fact I started out by trying to defend his position. Zoso, you of course have a point. If I don't know anything about the subject I can't really comment on it, I guess, then, I'm wrong, Rick Mead isn't right about John and his testing methods, and I don't know what I'm talking about when I agree!

Having said that, Gypsy, perhaps this will spark your memory. In the tournament in question, I logged in, changed my name to Gypsy (with a period at the end) "Gypsy." Then I created a bunch of planets called "Sysop Test Planets" and sectors with beacons saying "Sysop Test Sector No Warps Out," and started to build them.

You saw them and deleted them, even though there were NO rules against this strategy and in fact the rules said "use any user name you like."

I don't know, maybe your memory is really that bad, and you won't remember this event either.

Nice chatting you with anyway, I'm done.

Good trick. Don't think it'd fly now, but I like it.


EDIT:Corrected typo's.

I would like to butt in and say something here. Keep in mind I have no programming experience so typing this might get messy. Or maybe I shouldnt post becuase I dont know what I am talking about either. Or maybe I should mail a handwritten copy of this to one of the professional bug free programmers like Didaskalos and ask him to post it and see if it has any bugs in it. I agree with Rick Meade. I even agree with his delivery of his opinions and knowlege because of the way he has been attacked by everyone else on here because of something as stupid and petty as having an opinion or offering an explanation. I think Didaskalos is a ranting, raving, self absorbed, self congratulatory, idiot living in his own little closet world of programming perfection who is going to need a full body cast by time he is done patting himself on the back for all of the crap he raises just because someone else doesnt do something exactly as he would even tho he has no clue what they are working with to begin with.

My suggestion, everyone shut the hell up, let JP program, let Rick mediate and update us on progress, let Harley mediate and answer legitimate questions, let the new guy do his job, and I hope to GOD its not Ricks idea of a practical joke and the new guy is Didaskalos.

lol shorty. i invite you to display what specific thing you disagree with that I said; If you are unable to explain your disagreement, then perhaps you were correct, you should keep silent. Ad Hominem argument with absolutely no addressing of the actual points of dispute is rather juvenile. I will say, I have been immensely enjoying the posts that so freely come in on this forum that begin something along the lines of 'I have no ****ing clue what you guys are really talking about, but here is my opinion.' It's akin to going to a public Q&A session with a politician, standing up, and saying 'Hi, I don't know jack about economics, I really can't even do basic math, but I KNOW that your economic solutions are complete bull****.'

quote:Originally posted by Rofellos

Good trick. Don't think it'd fly now, but I like it.


EDIT:Corrected typo's.


Heh, it flew allright, because there was already a "DEAD" sector in the game that had warnings when you approached it. I don't know why it was there but numerous people were getting trapped in it, "a black hole" and gypsy had planets in there too.

So I went nearby to it, found a dead, and did an exact replica of the warnings. Everyone bought it. No one was going near it, and we were building in there

Then, someone asked Gypsy about it, and he checked it out, then posted a game announcement that he had deleted the entire thing.

So much for "objective observance" in a tournament

quote:Originally posted by Didaskalos

I will say, I have been immensely enjoying the posts that so freely come in on this forum that begin something along the lines of 'I have no ****ing clue what you guys are really talking about, but here is my opinion.'


Well, of course, you are correct in many ways. Two thing, however. First, I never once attempted to dispute any of your points, I merely said that I disagreed with your attack of JP's testing methods, and felt there was absolutely nothing wrong with them when you consider what he has to work with (himself alone, writing the code). I don't believe I need any knowledge of programming to form this opinion.

Secondly, I don't need any knowledge of economics to know if a politician's economic policies are "****ed" up! All I have to do is try to spend my paycheck week to week, and look at my cost of living every year, and find out how much in taxes I'm paying.

And that's the point. The final result is what matters, and yes there have been buggy releases, (more than a few) but overall I think the game has been fun to play, and I've experienced few game related glitches. Hence, I'm satisfied.

I don't have to understand how a game was programmed to enjoy playing it! That's just silly.

quote:Originally posted by John Pritchett (EIS)

I agree with what Didaskalos is saying, in an ideal world. In reality, I am one guy, and I don't have the resources to hire a team of internal testers. I have to rely on the community for the level of testing that is necessary to identify some bugs. Also, I'm working with a code base that originated in the late 80s, by a hobbyist programmer. Though I would like to write my own engine for a new Trade Wars and other games, I continue to use the old code base and am very much limited by the structure (or lack thereof) of it. It's not surprising that TWGS, which I wrote from the ground up, has been very stable for most of its lifetime. If I design and code something from the ground up, I am able to achieve the goals that Didaskalos suggests. If anyone has ever worked with a legacy program, they know how difficult it can be to add new features or even to fix existing bugs. There is no "quality control" for a monstrosity like Trade Wars.

In this particular case, regarding the work I've done since .55, we're dealing entirely with one problem. It goes back to a less obvious problem that has existed in the game since v3 was written, and it's an architectural limitation more than a "bug". This has to do with the way the game passes messages between player sessions, for things like FedCom, as well as internal event messages. In rare cases, it is possible for messages to be lost. Whenever a message is critical, this can cause problems. Post .55, I have been attempting to make the message processing system bulletproof. While my attempts may have solved the problem, they have created new ones. This sometimes happens. For now, I'm going to pull the changes related to message processing and see if the bugs we're experiencing quiet down. This version will be released to closed beta, .64, in the next day or two, and if it is stable, I'll get a post .55 revision out to the public that is more stable than .55. I will then go back and attempt to resolve the messaging issue in closed testing without "bothering" any of you.


Well written Sir. I wasted 3/5 days last week troubleshooting uncommented crappy code written by another, you have my sympathy. Compared to TW, what I had to deal with was like a flea compared to a whale. I suggest, however, that you consider flagging fixes as Beta, to avoid flak, until proven.

Well from my past experiences with didaskalos if he don't know **** about what your are asking him he will tell you striate up “I don't know **** about that sorry I can't help you” so I really don’t think he would just make **** up or is trying to make himself look like the perfect programmer and he is just commenting on his personal experience as a programmer.

Now I’m not a programmer but I have managed a few install/upgrades of custom ERP systems as for receiving bug free code from the vender I have never seen it happen but I can also say whatever bugs I did find before going live with the software were small and easily fixed. I’m also inclined to think that it would depend on what the purpose of the code being released was used for now if some company was writing code that automated my production lines that we made our widgets on I would expect to see a higher level of debugging done before it was released and put into production then some spreadsheet program that the accountants use to track peeps expenses with simply because as soon as product production stops the company stands to lose quite a bit of money while the accounts could just get out there calculators and work around the problem till it was fixed. Now that brings me to this point. It’s a game not a mission critical system that company’s stand to lose tones of money if it doesn’t work right. I agree more now with JP’s current testing of the new releases of the updates then the way he was doing it before .63 it is better practice to release the software on one or two systems and have the sysops get back with bug reports then to release it to everyone and have everybody and there mother reporting problems.

SGO some of the crap you say is just plane hilarious. I’m starting to think you just like to argue no mater how stupid the argument is.

I’m just happy to find that the TW is still alive after all these years and commend JP for all the effort he has put into TW keeping it alive and trying to make it as bug free as he can working with the current code base.

Thanks JP for still supporting Tradewars.