No those of us that find it silly, think your resources could be used on something actually useful, like botlink. Or chasing any other bugs that are still on the list. If it is a toggle I could careless, it's your time if you wish to implement something that will never be used have fun.


You might want to talk with your Ambassadors as they seem to be the ones that constantly beat the dead horse, the rest of us are content not to discuss it. But if there is no response the fear is there that you might think it is something most players want so the discussion starts. I moved it out of Kav's since he felt I was hi-jacking his thread and the title did not warrant this particular conversation.

You're right, we do like to argue. Kav was set-off by recent posts he's seen in newsgroups. I've asked him to post the links and posts, to give a voice to those who are of another opinion, who don't post here. (baby seals)

Not everyone has the tenacity to fight for an unpopular opinion. These debates are fun as well. As long as they remain civil, it's all fun. People can always ignore the threads, but as long as they jump in with a comment, they are in the debate. If it's not fun for them, they can stop reading and posting to certain threads.

Correct me if I am wrong on the following: The problem with the toggles is that they create a frankenstein game where the player may not know what will happen. That which they could do on one server, they find restricted on another. Wouldn't this make learning the game even more difficult?

The only thing I can see is game bangs posted similar to what proGameInfo does and includes all toggle settings to give full disclosure of what the player is getting into. The ability to do this (without a TWX script) would be a very nice enhancement for game bang notices. If anyone wants the source to proGameInfo (for v1.03) to rewite it, I am more than happy to release the script in .ts format.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Crippling the game for newbies ?.... Isn't that what you site is all about... Delays and toggles for everything... to run Merch is painful on your site with all the planet delays

How can you criticize V'ger's building games ? He has more player in one of his building games than you have on your whole site... All his games are labelled either Kill games or Builder... Maybe instead of mocking his site maybe learn from him ...he runs a very successful site for all types of players... And all types of players play there...

Orion is right.

It is up to JP to give Sysops the tools to attract players.
It is not up to the Sysops to criticize each other over what works and what doesn't.

Obviously players vote with their feet, and Ice-9 and UTW are filling a need that players have. It is up the the Sysops to find out what that need is and accommodate those users. If Cruncher wants to play to the manual crowd fine- but do not demean those who actually want to have players play how they want.

I'm definitely trying to capitalize on what Ice 9 and some other sites have done. They are definitely a model for how to run an active site. Unfortunately, the things they do are beyond the ability of a lot of gameops. I'm hoping to provide ways for ops like that to provide tools for others to use, they they have provided TWA edits for those who are less able to create a balanced game edit.

As for the Frankenstein thing, that's TradeWars. It's been like that for years. There are just a lot of settings. Adding one or two new ones won't put it over the edge. Of course I see the need to simplify the process of finding games and configuring games, and I intend to address it. Things are progressing, however slowly.

I would agree based on the messed up edits I have ran into over the years - expecting a game based on the name, and finding that it has been altered is frustrating. That was part of the reason I wrote the script to display the settings - let people know what they were getting into. The script that Vid has done a great job modifying was the second part to provide information to the players and somewhat level the knowledge of an edit.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

It is impossible to cope with the change that I have in mind to break the reactive attack scripts, by editing scripts. The only way would be by editing the twx source code and there are few if any who could do that, apart from Mulder (Xide) and perhaps EP. It is actually an extremely simple change and could probably be done in a few minutes. Simply changing the course plot format to the HVS format prevents twx from acquiring intersector warp data. Bang goes much of the internal database.

Doing the same for port reports would destroy most of the rest, but that would be wrong to do.

I tried to get twx working on HVS a couple of years ago to no avail and then went back and forth with Sing about the problem, the conclusion was, aint no way, because of the difference in format HVS-TWGS.

I had the reverse problem years ago when TWGS came out, the offline database I use, twassist couldn't read the course plots. I had to parse the capfiles so it would work, difference is, it is offline and just reads a text file.

Even importing warpdata (in the correct format) into twx does not work.

Let me try to explain this again. I am solely concerned with getting an environment for newbies and retreads set up. I know that there are great tools and aids available for them, in many cases written or maintained by those here on the opposite side of the debate from me, much to their credit. Problem is, the newbies for sure don't know where to look or even if they need to.

I am absolutely not anti script, and have zero problem with other players using anything they can throw at me. I am not anti twx, heck I tried to get it to work on HVS for god's sake.

If I gave that impression it was not my intention and I apologize. Threads always drift, the original poster often gets interested in the drift, if they don't, all they need do is reply with a quote to the last on topic post and drive on.

Did I miss where Kav posted those links, would speak volumes to your claims if you shared the wealth of players who are upset over and about the current state of the game.

In it's current inclination Yes you are correct. However it would not be a complete rewrite of the TWX database. The thing about Boolean logic is that once you have mastered one language the rest come more naturally.
I have never written in Delphi before,I'm also not a programmer by trade.

However in one night I was able to load TWX 2.05 into a compiler and get a basic understanding of how it works internally. Imagine if any one of user's decided to spend some actual time with it. I'm sure what Sing meant was in it's current implementation.

It's up to John to decide what to spend his time on, I personally don't really care what his focus is on as long as he is still supporting the game. The issue as I see it and how I took Toy's statement is WHY.

Even if John took the time to rewrite the database and no one was able to adapt the TWX database to the new format you'd still have programs like swath that can run adaptive and responsive scripts. Swath run's faster than a human, responds faster than a human and can burst similar to TWX. It's also a harder language to script in which is why it is not nearly as popular.

So what's the point of pushing this issue if the end result is you still have the same problems just with a different database. That in my opinion is much less dynamic and robust as this versions.

Kaus,

No argument there, sure the source code can be edited. I probably could even, but I'm not interested in spending time on the learning curve.

The object of the exercise is not to render TWX inoperable. That would be impossible; the TWGS versions that support it as is are on the street. The objective is to make a version wherein the reactive attack scripts do not work.

It is utterly and absolutely beyond me why this is seen as threatening. There is no way that people could be forced to play it, if it came to pass.

Regarding the usenet etc posters complaints, I have not posted the links, and see no point wasting my time doing so right now, simple google searches should bring them up. There were some here even.

But it won't make them "not work" it will delay them from working till someone corrects the situation. As I mentioned SWATH is still faster than either me or you, you failed to address the capacity of Swath reactive scripts. Should we contend for those also?


Fixed and answered in your post above



That's a cop out, hopefully since Cruncher volunteered you she will make good on these links. Your right we have seen a-few post's about TW's steep learning curve for re-entry. However we have also heard from re-treads and newbies that it's not so bad once you get past the initial shock of the pace of 2012.

Again it's not this banging a door down trying to get a fair game that's happening, and until you can post links from the last year in multitude of users who are both upset an unwilling from usenet to learn the new gamepath I will have to sick with... Lame; as my response.

V'Ger has done the best he can with what he's had to work with. He's gone beyond many other sysops have done with his server side scripts. He has a great place with a nice variety of games to play. And he's very tollerant, he saw me through my "re-entry" period when I was raising all sorts of heck.

My aim is not to have the most popular server. My goal is to have a "safe-haven" for returning and new players to learn the game away from the deadliest of scripts and most ruthless of players. A public server that's easily accessable, and a fresh reset at least monthly.

Once the players have re-learned the game, and have had some time to get used to the new scripts, then they may feel confident to go out and explore other servers with more competition, and then see what it's like to swim with the Sharks.

http://hackaday.com/2009/08/28/tradewars-2002-lives/

I don't know what newsgroups Kav reads.