cmon guys, i love newbies. i can kill them even without scripts. normally this is how it goes:

Deployed Fighters Report Sector 123: newb is attacking!
F rev stop killing my figs, please.
F newb what am i supposed to do? they don't ask me for tolls.
F rev you are supposed to NOT kill them.
F rev they are there to keep you from going into that sector.
F rev if you kill them, i know where you are because they tell me.
F rev then i come and kill you.
F rev just a little advice.
F newb shrug, whatever.
Deployed Fighters Report Sector 1234: newb is attacking!
F rev hey - didn't i tell you not to kill those figs?
F rev i'm begging you not to do that. i'm being nice, really.
F rev if you kill my figs i will have to kill you.
F newb bring it on.
Deployed Fighters Report Sector 2345: newb is attacking!
Command [00:00:00]:[1] (help ?) : 2345
<Move>
Twarp Y
ay999^M
poof
F rev i told you to stop hitting my figs!
F newb its ok, because i'm heading up a conspiracy
F newb to get rid of those Darn fighter messages
F newb so i can play without getting killed.

[:D]

ITS A CONSPIRACY

Res on video tells all...
http://www.twsyndicate.com/smack****/twgs56.htm

hehe

LOL my link was sensored....

Guess you have to use your imagination what 4 letters are missing from that LINK
starts with an ********* hehe sorry [:D]

quote:Originally posted by Didaskalos

"I support JP's decision to remove globals if they were causing a lot of game killing bugs like ptorping the Stardock."

- globals do not have anything to do with this bug.


"The game is unplayable if someone holds a lock on a player or sector and the player that hits that sector is going to get nailed."

- of course the game is playable. people have been playing the game for years now. i dont know of anyone with skill who just sits and locks on a sector for hours at a time waiting for some poor newbie to hit it so he can twarp/beam/pwarp in to kill them. killing newbies takes relatively little skill because newbies do stoopid things.


"This solution breaks scripts and prevents players from staying online for hours at a time looking to kill people."

-you obviously do not know what you are talking about. please stop.


"So it takes away some of the advantages to the experts and makes it more fair for the newbies."

-the changes are not intended to 'even the playing field'. any perceived advantage that skilled players have against newbies is sipmly a result of time/effort/commitment, not game mechanics. are you socialist? maybe i should give you some of my paycheck because you don't have the skill to earn as much money as i do?


"Or re-write the script to sit at the command prompt, and then listen for "Dumbbunny entered sector 1234 on..." messages and have the script do a 1234^MYAY5000^M or whatever to TWarp in and then attack Dumbbunny with 5K figs. Also hit "#" every few minutes to stay online."

-scripts have NOTHING to do with these changes. hello? hello? hello? of course people can write scripts to deal with any game changes, and the newbies will still complain; the point is that removing game messages is an arbitrary move without any positive benefits - allowing newbies to live longer is not a benefit, and more importantly, is a false hope. i can guarentee that you will live no longer against me than you do now with the proposed changes.


Funny I keep reading about people posting that scripts got broken by the changes. But as you obviously said, I don't know what I am talking about. I guess the scripts really did not break then?

I am tired with people running attack bots 24 hours a day from the stadock or near someone's planet. I need not quote the many other players who are upset about that as well. But as you said I do not know what I am talking about, so I guess those scripts do not exist?

I earned quite a bit of money as a programmer, not sure how much you earned. I am not a socialist, but I do believe in a fair playing field. If someone has an advantage over me because they run an attack bot and all of a sudden that attack bot no longer works, I see it as losing that sort of advantage. But as you said I do not know what I am talking about so the attack bots scripts do not break in 56, and it does not give the runner of that bot an advantage over me.

When I read that people like Res are unable to play in 56, I just tells me that something got changed. Of course you keep telling me it is not the scripts that require ingame messages. Also people who sit at Y/N prompts are not getting the messages. You say I do not know what I am talking about so I guess they are getting the messages at Y/N prompts and scripts are able to get those ingame messages at prompts which other players have stated they are not able to.

Keep in mind that I am not saying the scripts are causing the problems, I am just saying that based on what I have read people are reporting scripts breaking, like TW55 did. I guess I must have imagined that, as I do not obviously know what I am talking about.

I gave my view of things, sorry nobody here agrees with me. I'll just shut up now and let the Groupmind speak.

"Funny I keep reading about people posting that scripts got broken by the changes. But as you obviously said, I don't know what I am talking about. I guess the scripts really did not break then?"

I concur. You do not know what you are talking about, nor do you understand the nature of the changes you are even referring to.


"I am tired with people running attack bots 24 hours a day from the stadock or near someone's planet. I need not quote the many other players who are upset about that as well. But as you said I do not know what I am talking about, so I guess those scripts do not exist?"

Funny - I am able to beat/outsmart/kill the player running 24 hour attack scripts with relative ease. Just because you lack the skill/experience/desire/persistance to investigate how to beat such scripts doesnt mean they are bad things. I would love to play someone running afk/24x7 kill scripts at stardock or close to their planets. It's just an easy way to get rid of them. If you're curious how to do it, just ask me, I'll be happy to tell you how to beat them.


"I earned quite a bit of money as a programmer, not sure how much you earned. I am not a socialist, but I do believe in a fair playing field. If someone has an advantage over me because they run an attack bot and all of a sudden that attack bot no longer works, I see it as losing that sort of advantage. But as you said I do not know what I am talking about so the attack bots scripts do not break in 56, and it does not give the runner of that bot an advantage over me."

You are incorrect in the assumption that a 24 hour attack bot is an advantage (i've not actually seen a 24 hour attack bot - frankly, if they are running 24 hours they are usually flee bots) I'm REALLY not trying to dis you or your compatriots, but if you have not reached a skill level to beat such scripts, you are not qualified to make authoritative observations on what is or is not good for the game.


"When I read that people like Res are unable to play in 56, I just tells me that something got changed. Of course you keep telling me it is not the scripts that require ingame messages. Also people who sit at Y/N prompts are not getting the messages. You say I do not know what I am talking about so I guess they are getting the messages at Y/N prompts and scripts are able to get those ingame messages at prompts which other players have stated they are not able to."

Have you even played .56 yet? Do you know what you're talking about? As of this moment, .56 still allows all incoming game messages, regardless of prompts. But I guess you didnt know that. The major changes in .56 involve fixing gold bubbles, fixing certain bugs, fixing the time limit issues (not completed), and disallowing globals from a significant portion of prompts. But you wouldn't know that if you've not played it, would you.


"Keep in mind that I am not saying the scripts are causing the problems, I am just saying that based on what I have read people are reporting scripts breaking, like TW55 did. I guess I must have imagined that, as I do not obviously know what I am talking about."

Scripts that try to access globals at any other prompt than the allowed prompts are not functioning at the moment. Do not think that this will be the case for long. It is only a small matter to readjust a script to gather the required information before/after the point it is trying to at the moment. What has happened with .56 is this. All you people who use public scripts now have scripts that sometimes do not work, while the author of the scripts has but a simple matter to fix his/her script and voila, they are back to normal. Unfortunately for all you peeps who can't write/edit them, you're SOL until the author decides to re-release them. So tell me, Orion_Blaster, who has the advantage now? The script author (read:good player) or the script kiddie(read:newbie)?


"I gave my view of things, sorry nobody here agrees with me. I'll just shut up now and let the Groupmind speak."

I think that there are probably some newbies, like yourself, who agree with your position. The players who have studied, researched, and attained a high level of play disagree with you - not because we dont like newbies, but because we recognize the innate desire you are displaying to level the playing field without any effort on your part. Do you think that competitive players started out that way? No. We all started out as newbies. We all started out with more or less no clue. And we worked hard. We got better. And it took a lot of time, and a lot of effort. NOt some miracle scripts, not some bug use. If you continue to play with the attitude that the game needs to be fixed in order for you to compete against great players, you will never becomee great yourself.

"If you continue to play with the attitude that the game needs to be fixed in order for you to compete against great players, you will never becomee great yourself."

He speaks the truth.

I would like to see a Bwarper added to the planet in Sector 1 that deducts fuel from the holds in your ship .. It sure would help use little guys be able to bwarp to a blind sector.. You'd think as cool as Star Dock is it would have one! The underground should also offer a StarDock Evil Twarp Lock you pay for that is based priced on your negative alignemnt exp or whatnot.. but only works 1/10 time.. Heh! That would add a couple cool eliments to the game!

//Luke

quote:Originally posted by Didaskalos

"Funny I keep reading about people posting that scripts got broken by the changes. But as you obviously said, I don't know what I am talking about. I guess the scripts really did not break then?"

I concur. You do not know what you are talking about, nor do you understand the nature of the changes you are even referring to.


"I am tired with people running attack bots 24 hours a day from the stadock or near someone's planet. I need not quote the many other players who are upset about that as well. But as you said I do not know what I am talking about, so I guess those scripts do not exist?"

Funny - I am able to beat/outsmart/kill the player running 24 hour attack scripts with relative ease. Just because you lack the skill/experience/desire/persistance to investigate how to beat such scripts doesnt mean they are bad things. I would love to play someone running afk/24x7 kill scripts at stardock or close to their planets. It's just an easy way to get rid of them. If you're curious how to do it, just ask me, I'll be happy to tell you how to beat them.


"I earned quite a bit of money as a programmer, not sure how much you earned. I am not a socialist, but I do believe in a fair playing field. If someone has an advantage over me because they run an attack bot and all of a sudden that attack bot no longer works, I see it as losing that sort of advantage. But as you said I do not know what I am talking about so the attack bots scripts do not break in 56, and it does not give the runner of that bot an advantage over me."

You are incorrect in the assumption that a 24 hour attack bot is an advantage (i've not actually seen a 24 hour attack bot - frankly, if they are running 24 hours they are usually flee bots) I'm REALLY not trying to dis you or your compatriots, but if you have not reached a skill level to beat such scripts, you are not qualified to make authoritative observations on what is or is not good for the game.


"When I read that people like Res are unable to play in 56, I just tells me that something got changed. Of course you keep telling me it is not the scripts that require ingame messages. Also people who sit at Y/N prompts are not getting the messages. You say I do not know what I am talking about so I guess they are getting the messages at Y/N prompts and scripts are able to get those ingame messages at prompts which other players have stated they are not able to."

Have you even played .56 yet? Do you know what you're talking about? As of this moment, .56 still allows all incoming game messages, regardless of prompts. But I guess you didnt know that. The major changes in .56 involve fixing gold bubbles, fixing certain bugs, fixing the time limit issues (not completed), and disallowing globals from a significant portion of prompts. But you wouldn't know that if you've not played it, would you.


"Keep in mind that I am not saying the scripts are causing the problems, I am just saying that based on what I have read people are reporting scripts breaking, like TW55 did. I guess I must have imagined that, as I do not obviously know what I am talking about."

Scripts that try to access globals at any other prompt than the allowed prompts are not functioning at the moment. Do not think that this will be the case for long. It is only a small matter to readjust a script to gather the required information before/after the point it is trying to at the moment. What has happened with .56 is this. All you people who use public scripts now have scripts that sometimes do not work, while the author of the scripts has but a simple matter to fix his/her script and voila, they are back to normal. Unfortunately for all you peeps who can't write/edit them, you're SOL until the author decides to re-release them. So tell me, Orion_Blaster, who has the advantage now? The script author (read:good player) or the script kiddie(read:newbie)?


"I gave my view of things, sorry nobody here agrees with me. I'll just shut up now and let the Groupmind speak."

I think that there are probably some newbies, like yourself, who agree with your position. The players who have studied, researched, and attained a high level of play disagree with you - not because we dont like newbies, but because we recognize the innate desire you are displaying to level the playing field without any effort on your part. Do you think that competitive players started out that way? No. We all started out as newbies. We all started out with more or less no clue. And we worked hard. We got better. And it took a lot of time, and a lot of effort. NOt some miracle scripts, not some bug use. If you continue to play with the attitude that the game needs to be fixed in order for you to compete against great players, you will never becomee great yourself.


I am willing to learn, I never claimed to be an expert either. I asked questions about formulas in my posts here and EIS refused to answer them. I had to search for some of the formulas so I could get a better understanding of the game and write a few functions to figure things out. My time is tied up with college, family, and other things otherwise I would had time to learn with some people like Graz or Res. So if you would kindly give me in a private message or email how to beat an attack bot, I would sure appreciate it. Only tactics I can think of is to load an escape pod full of carbomite, or get a **** with high defense odds and have the bot attack that and drain its figs. Then come back in a ship with high offense odds and take the bot out.

I do not have an attitude that the game needs to be fixed for me to play better. That thinking of yours about me is a false opinion and full of fallacy. All I said was it takes an advantage away from people who would normally have an advantage over me by running a script. I did not say that the game needed to be fixed, nor did I say I could beat everyone hand to hand. True in some circumstances I escaped by hand from an attack, but not all of them. The whole reason why I am not using "Miracle Scripts" and whatnot is to learn to play better without needing them.

If you even bothered to read my posts carefully you will find that I am indeed playing .56, and have been for the past few days.

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar
I am willing to learn, I never claimed to be an expert either. I asked questions about formulas in my posts here and EIS refused to answer them. I had to search for some of the formulas so I could get a better understanding of the game and write a few functions to figure things out.


Considering all the times I've had the time to correct the mis-information you've posted here, you have the balls to complain? How about you make it clear when "EIS refused to answer questions?" That would be the time you came here saying you wanted a bunch of formulas so you could write a program you hoped to sell, and I told you to go do some research on your own instead of expecting people here to do it for you.

Orion - just out of curiosity, what particular changes do you think .56 has from .55? Your posts talk about a mixture of .56 and .57 changes, which leads me to believe that A) you don't really understand what the debate is about, and B) that all of these things you purport to be 'hearing' and 'observing' yourself are simply made up. Here's an example.

"This solution breaks scripts and prevents players from staying online for hours at a time looking to kill people. So it takes away some of the advantages to the experts and makes it more fair for the newbies."

This statement is completely inaccurate, as in wrong. Now, everyone is wrong at times - but when it was pointed out that the statement was incorrect, you became all defensive and followed up with a big long list of things that you had 'heard' and 'observed', which, quite frankly, appear to be fabrications.

Here's an example:

"When I read that people like Res are unable to play in 56, I just tells me that something got changed. Of course you keep telling me it is not the scripts that require ingame messages. Also people who sit at Y/N prompts are not getting the messages. You say I do not know what I am talking about so I guess they are getting the messages at Y/N prompts and scripts are able to get those ingame messages at prompts which other players have stated they are not able to."

The changes you refer to in this quote have not been implemented in .56. That being the case, who told you that they could not receive messages when at a Y/N prompt? Do you have .57 installed somewhere and are playing on it in order to see these results? What person 'stated they are not able to' (receive messages at y/n prompts).


My point is this: I really don't have a problem with you or the other people who have posted contrary opinions. What i have a problem with is people who post opinions as fact, and yet, quite frankly, have not investigated their facts before spouting off. I have no intention of dragging the argument out any longer, as it is apparent that EIS will do what EIS wants. I just wanted to clarify the points of contention, and the reason that it appears that we get upset when 'newbies' post incorrect or fabricated observations.

Regards,
Didaskalos

ps. orion, my icq is 156937994 - i do not particularly wish to keep debating the points on this bulletin board, however I will respond to any other statements you wish me to respond to. If you would like to discuss the differences in opinion we have stated via this board, feel free to icq me.

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar
I am willing to learn, I never claimed to be an expert either. I asked questions about formulas in my posts here and EIS refused to answer them. I had to search for some of the formulas so I could get a better understanding of the game and write a few functions to figure things out.


Considering all the times I've had the time to correct the mis-information you've posted here, you have the balls to complain? How about you make it clear when "EIS refused to answer questions?" That would be the time you came here saying you wanted a bunch of formulas so you could write a program you hoped to sell, and I told you to go do some research on your own instead of expecting people here to do it for you.


I did some research and found some formulas, I did not find enough information to learn what I needed to know to play the game better or write a good helper app. I still do not understand what difference it makes if I were to sell an app or not. Like everyone else I need to make some money somehow. It is a catch-22 situation, if I had the information I wouldn't post misinformation, yet I cannot get the informaton because the people who know it want me to do my own research even though I asked them really nice. The only way I seem to be able to learn is via my mistakes. Post what I think I know, and if it is mis-information I hope that someone corrects it, and I will pay attention to the correction. So far it is the only thing that works for me. If I had the information to start with, I wouldn't have to post what I think I know.

On one hand I get criticized for not knowing enough about the game, on the other when I ask for info I get told to research it myself, and while I have researched and looked for it, I was not able to find enough. Every place I go there exists some sort of wall preventing me from learning. Had I known enough I could have written a helper program that would have helped at least some players out. But instead I end up being in the dark on things and having to guess at things and playing Sherlock Holmes.

I consider my situation the same as playing baseball without being told the rules. Like how many outs, strikes, or balls matter, what the lines on the field mean, what base to run to after hitting the ball, and what umpires are there for, how to calulate batting averages and what they mean, etc. You can imagine my fustration then which is off the chart, as you can guess.

So my plans for writing a helper program are put on the back burner until I can learn the game and its formulas better. I just have not had enough free-time with college, family, and personal issues to find out what I need to know. I suggest that EIS ought to sell a technical manual for developers of TW Helper apps to interface with the game. If they did, I'd buy it. Trying to find the information I need on these forums and the Internet has been like trying to find a needle in a haystack for me. Takes way too much time to do so, is very fustrating, and seems to be virtually impossible for me.

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar
I am willing to learn, I never claimed to be an expert either. I asked questions about formulas in my posts here and EIS refused to answer them. I had to search for some of the formulas so I could get a better understanding of the game and write a few functions to figure things out.


Considering all the times I've had the time to correct the mis-information you've posted here, you have the balls to complain? How about you make it clear when "EIS refused to answer questions?" That would be the time you came here saying you wanted a bunch of formulas so you could write a program you hoped to sell, and I told you to go do some research on your own instead of expecting people here to do it for you.


I did some research and found some formulas, I did not find enough information to learn what I needed to know to play the game better or write a good helper app. I still do not understand what difference it makes if I were to sell an app or not. Like everyone else I need to make some money somehow. It is a catch-22 situation, if I had the information I wouldn't post misinformation, yet I cannot get the informaton because the people who know it want me to do my own research even though I asked them really nice. The only way I seem to be able to learn is via my mistakes. Post what I think I know, and if it is mis-information I hope that someone corrects it, and I will pay attention to the correction. So far it is the only thing that works for me. If I had the information to start with, I wouldn't have to post what I think I know.

On one hand I get criticized for not knowing enough about the game, on the other when I ask for info I get told to research it myself, and while I have researched and looked for it, I was not able to find enough. Every place I go there exists some sort of wall preventing me from learning. Had I known enough I could have written a helper program that would have helped at least some players out. But instead I end up being in the dark on things and having to guess at things and playing Sherlock Holmes.

I consider my situation the same as playing baseball without being told the rules. Like how many outs, strikes, or balls matter, what the lines on the field mean, what base to run to after hitting the ball, and what umpires are there for, how to calulate batting averages and what they mean, etc. You can imagine my fustration then which is off the chart, as you can guess.

So my plans for writing a helper program are put on the back burner until I can learn the game and its formulas better. I just have not had enough free-time with college, family, and personal issues to find out what I need to know. I suggest that EIS ought to sell a technical manual for developers of TW Helper apps to interface with the game. If they did, I'd buy it. Trying to find the information I need on these forums and the Internet has been like trying to find a needle in a haystack for me. Takes way too much time to do so, is very fustrating, and seems to be virtually impossible for me.



I am curious exactly what information are you looking for that you aren't able to find? I have looked at some of your posts and the replies to them and find many that were very helpful for what you asked, I even found some that explained in detail ship attack formulas.

You liken your situation to playing baseball without being told the rules, I think if you are trying to create a helper for the game at your stage of knowledge and ability to gather information that, sticking with the baseball theme, your situation is more like trying to play baseball for the yankees when you haven't played little league yet.

I am not sure why you are having such a rough time getting to the information you need, countless players for the last nearly 20 years have found the same information, but just out of curiosity i would like you to give me a Trade Wars subject that you just haven't been able to find information on.

quote:Originally posted by Rick Mead (teamEIS)

I am curious exactly what information are you looking for that you aren't able to find? I have looked at some of your posts and the replies to them and find many that were very helpful for what you asked, I even found some that explained in detail ship attack formulas.

You liken your situation to playing baseball without being told the rules, I think if you are trying to create a helper for the game at your stage of knowledge and ability to gather information that, sticking with the baseball theme, your situation is more like trying to play baseball for the yankees when you haven't played little league yet.

I am not sure why you are having such a rough time getting to the information you need, countless players for the last nearly 20 years have found the same information, but just out of curiosity i would like you to give me a Trade Wars subject that you just haven't been able to find information on.



First let me explain something, I am currently on disability for a wide range of illnesses. I am going to college to try and earn a degree and get better. Two of those illnesses cause problems with memory, concentration, focus, and comprehension. I am trying to focus on something I love, Tradewars, and learn more about it. I am slowly getting better, but I still have a long way to go before I can go back to work.

I have programming skills, but have not used them in a while and I am quite rusty. I found several formulas and yes some people were able to help me like CK and others, for that I am greatful. I wrote some functions, heck I think I even posted source code to those functions on the forums here for various things. I even offered to convert VB functions to C for Earth and his ATTAC calculator and did not ask for any money in return. Like other TW Helpers, I want to use the some functionality for free and the rest they have to pay for. I have not yet found the perfect TW helper, yet I see elements from various helpers that can be combined into one. DRoP has potentional for my TW Helper idea to hook into it with its ODBC database.

As far as what I need to know, well just read my posts and see what areas I am lacking in.

One thing I have not yet been able to figure out is fig and shield prices. But I gave up on trying to figure it out when I got really fustratated when my theories did not work and I could not get a working formula. CK showed me a web page he designed to figure them out, but I am still clueless.

I am not a complete newbie, TW55 taught me how to play red in a MBBS game, I know how to play blue. Believe it or not there are actually people who know less than me who asked me for advice. Still I apparently do not know enough. I wish to learn more.

I also wanted to know how to figure out port prices and how to get 2 or 5 exp points a trade. Some people say it is impossible to get 5 exp, and IIRC one person said it was possible but only with low amounts of holds. I still do not understand the MCIC formula. Nor am I able to find it apparently.

I am also boggled by the alien settings and the formulas used for them. How much is too much and how much is too little? I do not want invicible aliens, but I do not want punching bags either.

Believe me that I am doing research, but I apparently am failing at it. I am definatly struggling here. Sorry for mis-information at times, I observe stuff that looks one way to me, but might be different to someone else. I only have my observations to go on which may be wrong, but it is all I got to work with.

Using the baseball anology, I am a player who never played in the Little League yet am in the Major League not knowing exactly what I am doing and having to guess at the rules and the way to play. I am lucky to have survived the last LoTR game I was in without getting podded, which is a major accomplishment for me. Tradewars seems to have Major and Little League players in the same game. Major League players complain that there is not enough competition, yet few Major League players want to mentor the Little League players to get them up to a more challenging level.