A few hours into the game, no one should be PPTing. With 26-man teams and these edits to make furbing turn costs minimal you only need 6 blues per team. If that. >shrugs<

Balancing a game with 26-players and hundreds of millions of credits a day in cashing potential is quite a difficult task. If the game really lasts, I applaud Vader on his edits. They just don't look good on paper. Most things work a lot differently in practice than in theory, though, so I'll take you guys' word for it. Especially since the edits are pretty similar to CWv1, I gather.

TCW1 lasted about 6 weeks. Obviously, edits were tweaked a bit based on that experience. I'll be looking for you to give Vader a standing ovation, xen


maggie

shut up xen you newb, you have no clue what you are talking about,, go back to ship delay, no script, newb fests and leave the pro's alone..

Six blues and 20 reds?? sounds like you have a good grasp on what makes up a corp.. nah forget a grid and hunting other corps.. just cash on the five sectors you have gridded and hope u dont get found.. wait are u up for an alternate position because i would love someone of your experience and knowledge on my corp.. <crossing fingers>

LOL

quote:Originally posted by Stockton

shut up xen you newb, you have no clue what you are talking about,, go back to ship delay, no script, newb fests and leave the pro's alone..

Six blues and 20 reds?? sounds like you have a good grasp on what makes up a corp.. nah forget a grid and hunting other corps.. just cash on the five sectors you have gridded and hope u dont get found.. wait are u up for an alternate position because i would love someone of your experience and knowledge on my corp.. <crossing fingers>
With Twarpable Colts, and only 50000 colos a day on Terra, furbing and colonizing won't take many turns. If you can't grid a puny 10k universe with 3-5 players doing that full time, you've got problems. Not to mention the ease with which you could start with more blues than that to pull starting colos and get a better grid going faster, then switch them red once you reached the grid maintenance instead of grid setup stage.

Stock edits typically call for 3 blues to 2 reds (source: tw-cabal, so talk to Traitor if you disagree with that), but with this many players sharing so few colos, you don't need to increase your colonizers by the same ratio, and with twarp colts you don't need to increase your furbers by the same ratio, and with a 10k instead of 20k universe you don't even need to increase gridders by the same ratio, which makes for far more than 40% reds on each team. 10 blues and 16 reds (~2:3) is the very least a corp could do to stay in the cash game and still grid plenty more than "five sectors", which was a rediculous exaggeration and you know it.

And why didn't you sign up if you are so wise in the ways of TW? The game needs teachers.

Because I wouldn't last two seconds in a game like this with lots of pdropping and scripting going on, because I only script monotonous tasks to save boredom, I don't script for speed. So the first time I got in a firefight I'd be dead, because I don't have any AY6000*AY6000*AY6000* macros set up to instantly launch infinite waves. That sort of macro would be useless on the ship delay games I play in.

I'd lose because it'd take me 5 seconds to perform a task everyone else would be doing in 0.5. Knowledge is only half the battle in a scripter's game. And a good amount of my knowledge isn't even valid in a scripter's game, so I wouldn't be useful as a teacher either, unless you guys wanted to come over to the dark side and play a slower-paced chess-like game with us old fogeys on one of our no-pdrop delay servers. [;)]

So what yo are saying is you're scared? *g* I bet you'd be surprised. None of that "super duper pdrop" stuff comes into play for 10-14 days.

I have 5 things to say.

1.) I’m hosting this game so as far as I’m concerned ether put up or shut up at least Stretch has the balls to give these edits a try I may not have placed him on a team yet but he did sign up as an alternate.
2.) If you wasting turns pulling loads of colos in this game your team deserves to loose your not reading the edits right.
3.) The reason its on a 10k verse is so that the game will not stale-mate like the last one did.
4.) If you want to bash scripters take it to the Sick of script bashers thread http://www.eisonline.com/TWForum/topic. ... C_ID=18765 and stay out of this one were only trying to organize a fun game not a debate about edits or go make a new thread.
5.) Vader makes some of the best edits you’ll ever play and that was the reason we chose them they are very balanced and not as easy to win as you think.

Xen,You said:
Knowledge is only half the battle in a scripter's game. And a good amount of my knowledge isn't even valid in a scripter's game.......


So suck it up and admit that maybe people who DO play large draft style games might know more than you about good edits for such a game.

maggie <I might be old, but I do my best not to be a fogey.>

Xen, I think your lack of experience in these very large, faster paced games is leading you to make some false assumptions about the way this game will go.

Despite the huge numbers of players, these games end in stalemates as often as not. This isn't like a regular game where its common for one corp to just plow through everyone else and claim a quick win. There are a lot of good players on all the teams, and it will be a tough fight.

There will never be a "grid setup" phase and a "grid maintenance" phase, every team will be constantly trying to expand their grid (at the cost of the other teams' grids). There will be very very intense gridding and counter gridding going on, starting from very early on and only getting stiffer as the game progresses.

There are no super planets, so tons and tons of colos aren't normally needed. Generally, you put the bare minimum number of colos on a planet, that way if it is lost, you didn't waste a ton of turns hauling load after load of colos.

Not every ship even really needs to have a role. Theres a ton of ships, and theres nothing wrong with combining a few of them. As long as theres a good cashing ship, a good combat ship, a good defender, a red photon ship and a good gridder, the rest are pretty much moot except for furbing and early game PPTing.

Your numbers about red cashing make a number of assumptions that probably will not hold true. For starters, a fair number of players won't play their turns each day for whatever reason. Some might be busy, some might quit, some might not be able to play when other reds can cash. And of course, some will be photoned or killed. Coordinating the team's reds will be a huge job, and would be difficult to do well even if everyone was available 24/7. Also, theres a lot of newer players who are bound to make some mistakes which will either cost them turns and/or get them killed.

As long as you weren't playing a blue hunter/killer/gridder (which you don't seem suited for or interested in anyways), the rest of the players will see little to none of the combat. If you were playing red, you could use utility scripts to cash, then cloak out. Especially in the early stages, reds stay on as little as possible and are never exposed to combat unless they're ambushed cashing. If that happens, you're pretty much screwed no matter what scripts you have. A torped colt is no match for a loaded ISS, even if you have some mega secret uber kill script, heh. Only a relatively small group from each team will be actively seeking and engaging in combat, and normally only against the same type of group on the enemy corp.

These sorts of games have ended very quickly in the past, and will do so again, I'm sure. But its fairly rare for that to happen. Vader makes very nice edits which are well balanced. Sometimes just looking at the edits page isn't enough to get a feel for how they will work in actual gameplay.

Maggie, Xen is NOT what I meant by "Old School". By that term I meant "experienced and able to play low-turns where as the newer players can't because they didn't grow up using them." Xen's type of "Old School", he admits, wouldn't last in a modern all-out war type game as we play TW now. He is better served playing on the boards in the list at http://www.dmine.com/telnet/, not on the ones listed in the forum's rebang page. His type of "Old School" is also "Old Style"; not the same. So from now on I will refer to Old School players as Old School/Modern Style and Old School/Old Style.

quote:Balancing a game with 26-players and hundreds of millions of credits a day in cashing potential is quite a difficult task. If the game really lasts, I applaud Vader on his edits. They just don't look good on paper. Most things work a lot differently in practice than in theory, though, so I'll take you guys' word for it. Especially since the edits are pretty similar to CWv1, I gather.

Quoting myself since everyone seemed to ignore the fact I already stated a dozen posts ago that my view of the edits doesn't really apply here so enjoy your game. Despite saying that, even after I said it, I've been bashed several times.

Psion, note the following, ALL of which were stated AFTER I admitted the above, as it proves the nonscripter-bashing is just as prevailent (maybe even more so) as any scripter-bashing I haven't really noticed anyone but Stretch partake in:

quote:shut up xen you newb, you have no clue what you are talking about,, go back to ship delay, no script, newb fests and leave the pro's alone..
quote:So suck it up and admit that maybe people who DO play large draft style games might know more than you about good edits for such a game.
quote:1.) I’m hosting this game so as far as I’m concerned ether put up or shut up at least Stretch has the balls to give these edits a try I may not have placed him on a team yet but he did sign up as an alternate.
quote:4.) If you want to bash scripters take it to the Sick of script bashers thread http://www.eisonline.com/TWForum/topic. ... C_ID=18765 and stay out of this one were only trying to organize a fun game not a debate about edits or go make a new thread.

As for that last point, whentf did I "bash scripters"? And I figured asking some questions about the edits to--what game? Oh yeah--CORP WARS was acceptable in the thread on--what game? Oh yeah---CORP WARS. I guess this thread is reserved for smack talk, though. Sorry I didn't see that fact posted anywhere.

Ironically the very person who CREATED the edits, Vader, was one of the most polite in responding to my questions and critiques. Thank you, Vader, for not succumbing to the maturity level of everyone else. (Yes, I noticed Vader's double-edged meanings and sarcasm, but that, at least, is better than "suck it up", "you newb", "put up or shut up", and so on.)

Thanks to Psion, too, for continuing to keep a cool head as well, even if he kept hammering home the same point I had admitted a long time ago and quoted at the beginning of this post. Still, it's good to see details to back up that fact, detailing exactly *how* such games differ from the games I'm accustomed to.

Heh, actually I think the script bashing thread stirred people up a bit and made them be a bit more sensitive to perceived "script bashing" or criticism of vader's edits. As I'm sure you can guess, Vader is very well respected as both a sysop and an edit author. Oh and I'm afraid that since Stretch was sharing your viewpoint, you might be associated with him in people's minds, lol

I know you had already made that point, I was explaining what some of the differences were is all. Your preferred style of game tends to play out much differently from this type *shrug*

No problem, Psion. And thanks again for not fitting into the stereotypical mold of the rest of the folks around here and refraining from actively calling me a newbie or acting as if I know nothing about the game all because I play it differently. You may even THINK it under the cover of your diplomatic prose, but at least you don't SAY it, which is a marked improvement over Stockton's stance. [:)]

Also, criticizing edits (and quite constructively, I might add; I never said "these edits suck", I just pointed out perceived issues) is NOT criticzing the editOR, nor the people who play games using the edits. I'd think that point would be obvious, but given the entire scripting community seems to have taken personal offense at my asking some questions about a Vader edit, I guess I have to state it outright.