Actually, you don't know history. The "unconditional surrender" lie is one a person like you would believe. The US Government didn't give a darned about the Japaneze "conditions" to surrender? How do I know? Because the only thing the Japaneze were worried about in an unconditional surrender would be that their Emperor would lose his throne! Your argument seems to suggest that the United States was unwilling to allow the Emperor to continue to reign, and that's why we dropped the bomb! Nonsense, we never deposed the Emperor, he reigned long after the Japaneze surrender! Fact was, we didn't care! The "unconditional surrender" was just an excuse to drop the bomb. Also, you haven't done your research again! The argument that "a million lives would be lost, in a ground invasion," makes no sense at all if you agree the Japaneze were beaten and ready to surrender!

Make up your mind, either they were ready to surrender, and therefore, when we invaded they would throw down their arms and surrender, or they weren't ready to surrender and we would have lost a million lives trying to MAKE them surrender!

I'm quite positive the above argument was lost on you, but I tried anyway!

The TRUTH is, the Japaneze were beaten. Their money was gone, their supplies run out, their Navy was crushed, and their Air Force was non existent! There wouldn't have been much of a "loss of life" had we invaded!

Let's face it, the Government has lied to us about a great many things, and they will continue to lie to us.

It's not doomsday theory, it's just point of fact!

Just because you refuse to look at the facts because your mind is made up, doesn't change the facts!

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord

Actually, you don't know history. The "unconditional surrender" lie is one a person like you would believe. The US Government didn't give a darned about the Japaneze "conditions" to surrender? How do I know? Because the only thing the Japaneze were worried about in an unconditional surrender would be that their Emperor would lose his throne! Your argument seems to suggest that the United States was unwilling to allow the Emperor to continue to reign, and that's why we dropped the bomb! Nonsense, we never deposed the Emperor, he reigned long after the Japaneze surrender! Fact was, we didn't care! The "unconditional surrender" was just an excuse to drop the bomb. Also, you haven't done your research again! The argument that "a million lives would be lost, in a ground invasion," makes no sense at all if you agree the Japaneze were beaten and ready to surrender!

Make up your mind, either they were ready to surrender, and therefore, when we invaded they would throw down their arms and surrender, or they weren't ready to surrender and we would have lost a million lives trying to MAKE them surrender!

I'm quite positive the above argument was lost on you, but I tried anyway!

The TRUTH is, the Japaneze were beaten. Their money was gone, their supplies run out, their Navy was crushed, and their Air Force was non existent! There wouldn't have been much of a "loss of life" had we invaded!

Let's face it, the Government has lied to us about a great many things, and they will continue to lie to us.

It's not doomsday theory, it's just point of fact!

Just because you refuse to look at the facts because your mind is made up, doesn't change the facts!



Sigh, arguing with you is like watching paint dry. The unconditional surrender agreement was to make sure that we would be able to install a democracy in that country. The emperor remained after WWII in a position that had no real authority. The Japanese government offered to surrender as long as we agreed to certain conditions. People like you probably think that is ok because you have been the "beaten" all of you life. However, people like me tend to think that someone who kills Americans deserves ZERO CONDITIONS. How hard is it for you to understand that there IS a difference between conditions and no conditions. We won. We dictate the terms. I hate to disappoint you but it has been that way throughout history. The losers dont dictate terms.

The invasion according to many estimates would have cost us hundreds of thousands of lives. Yes, there are people who disagree with those estimates, but the greatest military minds of the time thought we would lose many thousands of men. If you had actually done any research about Japan you would understand that they were a very proud nation with a long history of doing things in order to save face. The army would not have surrendered unless they were told to do so. I know it is hard for liberals like you and the French to understand this but some people actually dont mind dying while fighting for a cause. You can argue what ifs all day long but I can assure you that our military leaders are much smarter than you have ever dreamed of being.

Now a quick suggestion. Please stop reading the conspiracy theory sites. Many of the people who publish them are lunatics who also believe we have a UFO sitting on a military base with live aliens in it. I feel sorry for people like that. Sometimes I think they actually cannot help themselves and that they had such a miserable childhood (ie, beaten up by bullies, beaten by their parents, too stupid to make their grades, socially inept) that they think "everyone" is out to get them. You should become more grounded in reality and perhaps your opinions would mean something.

General McArthur disagreed with your estimates, as did all the other Generals of the Major Commands! General McArthur was appalled by the "undconditional surrender" demand, and said so publicly!

The fact is, we didn't care about "conditions" of surrender. We wanted an excuse to try out our new toy, the atomic bomb!

All you spout is platitudes, with no real basis in historical fact. Your opinions mean nothing because they aren't based on real research!

quote:
Personally i find it amusing when people try to hide the fact that they are bleeding heart liberals and get their talking points from the media or from libby websites. Give me something original. At least Typhoon inserts some original comments into his arguments. As for your views, I have a pretty good idea. Federalized health care, yes to homosexual marriage, yes to gun control, no to military spending, no to "under God" in the pledge, yes to legalized abortion, and yes to a redistribution of wealth. I suppose you are also for reparations for the African-Americans because the white people used their ancestors as slaves? How close was i?


Nice try, but this is a prime point of how you are making a lot of rampent assumptions with no basis in fact just because I happen to be planning on voting for Kerry. Lets give this a try:

- Healthcare: A solution needs to be made there, but to be honest I haven't seen any arguements that look like a good solution to this problem. Don't personally have an answer for what would be the right way to go on that issue because I haven't really spent much time thinking about it.

- Homosexual Marriage: Couldn't care less to be honest. If someone wants to spend their life with someone who is of the same sex, it really doesn't make a bit of difference to me. Not a style of life I have any interest in, but they are entitled to their own lives and choices.

- Gun Control: Nope. Wrong. I am totally against Gun control. It does nothing for stopping the problems they are using as reasons for gun control and only serve to punish the people who get the weapons through legal methods. Its ridiculous to think that making it hard for the legal buyer to get a weapon is going to even remotely effect the criminal element. Outside the fact that they now have less to fear in robbing a home.

- Military Spending: While I'm not -No- to Military Spending, I am Pro controlled spending. I think a great deal of money is wasted by the military that sould be saved if they were just taking better care of where it was being spent and on what.

- 'Under God' in pledge: Frankly I don't see the issue here. It wasn't a part of the original pledge and the there is no real reason for it to even be a part of the Pledge. The pledge is meant to be a statement of patriotism. This country was founded by people who were tired of religious prejudice in Europe. It only makes sense to me that maybe we should keep them in mind when we are forcing people to use displays of patriotism that are also religiously skewed.

- Legalized Abortion: Franky I don't see Abortion as being any of my business or the governments. And unless your a woman, I don't feel its any of your business either. Its between the person involved, their family, the father of the child and their religious beliefs. I'm not arrogant enough to say I have a right to dictate what a person does to their own body.

- Redistrobution of Wealth: Abosolutely not. People who earned their money deserve to keep it. I may not think a capitalistic economy is the end solution, but its better than any of the others that have been devised to date. The idea of this is theft as far as I'm concerned. No different than someone going in and robbing your bank account.

- Reparations: Can't say that I am to be honest. As bad as they might have had it, they still have a country to go back to. The only people I think even remotely are deserving of this are the Native Americans that we stole all this land from. Because they don't have a place to go back to. We took it all. But thats a moot point here.

How close were you? Not very to be honest. Sure I did have a couple of those views, but as I said, I have thoughts that lay on either side of the fence. Its why I registered as an Independant. I'm disgusted with the major parties that hold sway in DC.

quote:
Again, instead of harping on a liberal talking point please tell me what should be done to fix this problem and WHY it should matter. Dont tell me that the world could get really mad at us and beat us up because we both know that wont happen. They rely too heavily on us and GB and I am not sure the rest of the world could take us out anyway.


The simple fact is there are almost Seven Billion people in the world today. Of that, there is roughly 230-260 million in the United states. If it came down to it, the numbers talk for thmselves.

I'm not saying that Bush should have done anything differently. You obviously didn't bother reading what I said. I think he did what needed to be done at the time. However its time for him to leave so someone else can get into office and move things in the next right direction. Do I think that John Kerry is the final answer to this? Absolutely not. But at least he is expressing the concerns and views that are in the direction I want to see things going. Will he follow through. Well, nobody knows that about a canidate until they are in office unfortunately. All I know is that Bush is unable to finish the next part of what needs to be done because he is too confrontational and unwilling to work for a common solution. And he's gotten himself too focused on Iraq, Plain and Simple.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord

General McArthur disagreed with your estimates, as did all the other Generals of the Major Commands! General McArthur was appalled by the "undconditional surrender" demand, and said so publicly!

The fact is, we didn't care about "conditions" of surrender. We wanted an excuse to try out our new toy, the atomic bomb!

All you spout is platitudes, with no real basis in historical fact. Your opinions mean nothing because they aren't based on real research!



http://college.hmco.com/history/readers ... iondow.htm

To paraphrase for you since your browser obviously doesnt allow you to surf to NON conspiracy theory sites:
1. Macarthur initially estimated casualties at almost 100k during the first 90 days.
2. If the USSR would invade Manchuria it would lessen those figures somewhat.
3. Japan had 370k ground troops on the FIRST island we would invade and 575k home defense forces there as well. Almost 1 MILLION people to defend Kyushu. Yeah, it would have been a cakewalk.
4. Many people think that Truman exagagerated his estimates, but surely even a nonbeliever like yourself can see what the casualty figures would have been. Japan had a policy that was much like the terrorists policy in Iraq and that was to inflict as much death and destruction on the US as they could in order to force the bleeding heart liberals to pull us out of the war.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/giangrec.htm
Again a paraphrase:
1. Given by a renowned military historian.
2. Truman says he was given estimates of 250k to 1 million casualties by Macarthur at Potsdam for the invasion of BOTH of Japans major islands.
3. The battle of Leyte exceeded casualty and time expectations because of difficult and unexpected terrain problems and that was on an island that we had occupied for 40 years. Imagine the problems of invading Japan.
4. Many historians think that continued bombing and blockading of Japan would starve them into surrender. However, half of the people in Japan were living on farms and the vegetable gardens were a common site among their people. Indeed during the blockade imports were cut and the average caloric intake was reduced, but they were nowhere near starvation. Again a misrepresentation of the facts as they were by conspiracy theorists.
5. The invasion would have taken at least 90 days to commence and perhaps longer. This is while the Japanese were reinforcing their positions because they had already figured out WHERE we would be landing as opposed to the German preparations in Normandy.
6. The estimates of the shape of the Japanese airforce has been proven to be wrong. We intitially estimated that they had around 6500 planes. Post war inventory however showed there were over 12000 planes there and that the Japanese intended to use many of these planes as kamikazes. On Okinawa alone they used 1400 kamikazes and we lost 5000 sailors. You do the math.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarthur/ ... ation.html
1. This article talks about the POW numbers of allied troops that were in Japan and the orders that had been given out that in case of an invasion the 100,000 POWs were to be executed. Again, do the math.

http://www.cia.gov/csi/monograph/425360 ... 10001.html
1. A reiteration of the casualty estimates given by Macarthur's staff. 105,000 casualties in the first 90 days. One thing you need to understand is that these estimates were made when the force on Kyushu was at 250k. By the time we dropped the bombs the force there had risen to an estimated 525k, so again, you do the math. Finally, there is no recorded evidence of a revising of casualty estimates AFTER we had intelligence suggesting a buildup of massive proportions.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/gregory/gregory8.html
One of your sites...America bad, World good.

http://www.makethemaccountable.com/drob ... Speaks.htm
Another one of your sites...no documentation at all, just rambling.

In conclusion, perhaps it is YOU who do no research. Throughout history there have been few instances of a LOSER dictating terms to a winner. I am glad we made them surrender unconditionally. Who knows if eventually communism (or the democratic party) would have overrun Japan if we had allowed them to go back to their imperial system. Finally, address my arguments before you come back with more stuff that is verbatim from some conspiracy web site. The japanese had never lost a foreign war up to this time so perhaps they were not familiar with the winner dictating terms. In all of their foreign wars they were some of the most ruthless winners to ever fight a battle. They consistently raped and killed their enemies even after a surrender. Their way of life (ie, the belief in the ancient samurai's way of doing things) led to their refusal to surrender without terms because they were fearful of the way they would be treated. Why? They were scared that perhaps the winners would treat them as bad as they treated their conquered. Lastly, on July 26 we issued the Potsdam Declaration stating that the Japanese could end the war IF they accepted unconditional surrender terms. We didnt drop the bomb until 11 days later. I wonder why they didnt surrender if they had already offered to? There again, your argument is WEAK in that if they had really wanted to drop the bomb on Japan why even give them a chance to surrender at all? Why not drop the bomb, send the message, then ask them to surrender? Your argument is based in fantasy, that is why.

quote:
Nice try, but this is a prime point of how you are making a lot of rampent assumptions with no basis in fact just because I happen to be planning on voting for Kerry. Lets give this a try:

- Healthcare: A solution needs to be made there, but to be honest I haven't seen any arguements that look like a good solution to this problem. Don't personally have an answer for what would be the right way to go on that issue because I haven't really spent much time thinking about it.

- Homosexual Marriage: Couldn't care less to be honest. If someone wants to spend their life with someone who is of the same sex, it really doesn't make a bit of difference to me. Not a style of life I have any interest in, but they are entitled to their own lives and choices.

- Gun Control: Nope. Wrong. I am totally against Gun control. It does nothing for stopping the problems they are using as reasons for gun control and only serve to punish the people who get the weapons through legal methods. Its ridiculous to think that making it hard for the legal buyer to get a weapon is going to even remotely effect the criminal element. Outside the fact that they now have less to fear in robbing a home.

- Military Spending: While I'm not -No- to Military Spending, I am Pro controlled spending. I think a great deal of money is wasted by the military that sould be saved if they were just taking better care of where it was being spent and on what.

- 'Under God' in pledge: Frankly I don't see the issue here. It wasn't a part of the original pledge and the there is no real reason for it to even be a part of the Pledge. The pledge is meant to be a statement of patriotism. This country was founded by people who were tired of religious prejudice in Europe. It only makes sense to me that maybe we should keep them in mind when we are forcing people to use displays of patriotism that are also religiously skewed.

- Legalized Abortion: Franky I don't see Abortion as being any of my business or the governments. And unless your a woman, I don't feel its any of your business either. Its between the person involved, their family, the father of the child and their religious beliefs. I'm not arrogant enough to say I have a right to dictate what a person does to their own body.

- Redistrobution of Wealth: Abosolutely not. People who earned their money deserve to keep it. I may not think a capitalistic economy is the end solution, but its better than any of the others that have been devised to date. The idea of this is theft as far as I'm concerned. No different than someone going in and robbing your bank account.

- Reparations: Can't say that I am to be honest. As bad as they might have had it, they still have a country to go back to. The only people I think even remotely are deserving of this are the Native Americans that we stole all this land from. Because they don't have a place to go back to. We took it all. But thats a moot point here.

How close were you? Not very to be honest. Sure I did have a couple of those views, but as I said, I have thoughts that lay on either side of the fence. Its why I registered as an Independant. I'm disgusted with the major parties that hold sway in DC.


The simple fact is there are almost Seven Billion people in the world today. Of that, there is roughly 230-260 million in the United states. If it came down to it, the numbers talk for thmselves.

I'm not saying that Bush should have done anything differently. You obviously didn't bother reading what I said. I think he did what needed to be done at the time. However its time for him to leave so someone else can get into office and move things in the next right direction. Do I think that John Kerry is the final answer to this? Absolutely not. But at least he is expressing the concerns and views that are in the direction I want to see things going. Will he follow through. Well, nobody knows that about a canidate until they are in office unfortunately. All I know is that Bush is unable to finish the next part of what needs to be done because he is too confrontational and unwilling to work for a common solution. And he's gotten himself too focused on Iraq, Plain and Simple.


So you are gonna cast your vote for a liar, an anti-war no matter what guy, a flip flopper, a tax raiser, a gun control advocate, an anti-military guy, a bow down to the french guy, and a liar (or did i say that already). The libs love to say Bush lied about things but cannot show me one instance where he did. Kerry has lied countless times and he hasnt even been running for a year yet. As for me, no thanks. I got enough dishonesty from Clinton to last me a lifetime.

Ugh. I think I'm done with this thread. I'm here to talk about TW, not Politics.

Bone, I don't agree with you. I really don't. I, personally, think that you are stuck in the same kind of circle that Conspiracy theorists lock themselves into. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion. You do have valid concerns and you are entitled to your opinions.

The simple fact is that you can show evidence to prove any point. Hell, I could probably twist things around to show that John Kerry was a cross-dressing Transexual and Bush liked to travel through Swinger parties when nobody was looking. Hell, most of DC is corrupt as all hell, and I think even you can agree with that point of fact. [:P] In the end we'll vote for who we vote for, but these perceptional circles are giving me a headache and I'd rather spend the time talking about TW and it's future in the world of computing. Hell, I'm thinking of a couple game concepts myself, but with my limited knowledge of programming in the required programming languages limits it. Anyone know a place I can just jab an electrode into my head and download the knowledge? I can take a little pain. No really. [:D]

No doubt you are right that most of DC is corrupt. Bush is not even close to being perfect but it saddens me to see people cast a vote for someone who is gonna set America back during the most important election of the last half century.

Kerry is a man who has shown throughout his career that is WAY outside the mainstream of America. Yes, it is an election year and he has migrated towards the middle, but that doesnt change his votes during the last decade.

The next president is gonna get to appoint Supreme Court justices and the democrats have shown that they will go to ANY level in order to rewrite history and rewrite the Constitution (see Florida 2000 where the DEMOCRATS took the election into the courts not the Republicans...another little noted fact in the media). If Kerry is elected your kids will see during their lifetimes:

1. Strict Gun Control
2. Federal Health Care
3. Gay marriage being legalized even though most Americans disagree with it
4. A further going away from the principles that our forefathers founded this country on...whether you believe in God or not our country was founded by men who felt that God was an important part of our way of life even though the liberals today dont
5. More intelligence failures

How will the dems do all of this? They cant cram it down our throats any other way than to have the Supreme Court stacked with liberals pass their "interpretation" of the Constitution off as laws. YOu mark my words and wait and see.

Now, the next person who responds to this thread saying they are gonna vote for Kerry please answer me something...

Why can i be charged with two counts of murder for killing a pregnant woman?

heh, because there are two lives involved? But really in my opinion the second doesn't matter...a person should be locked up for life...if not executed, for just 1 murder. This is only considering of noone is falsely accused/set up, etc. Which might be a good reason to not use execution, then a convicted person can pursue proving their innocense while serving time. Obviously I don't mean they themselves do it, but they can hire lawyers, investigators, have family do it, etc.

Kinda got off the subject...but fact is there are two physical living beings involved. The debate whether the child is self aware or has a soul to be considered alive or not is stoopid. Physically, there is a life present.

My point PHX is that many dems support abortion which is killing the same unborn child but also support someone like Scott Peterson getting convicted of double murder. Just one of many problems that the Democratic party cannot explain and another example of their hypocrisy.

Next question...

Why does John Kerry not sue the Swiftboat veterans who are supposedly spreading lies about him? I mean it would be very easy to sue them and bring total and complete financial ruin to them if nothing else. Yet Kerry sits idly by and lets his other groups try to get them to shutup. Weird. BTW, how many of these guys do you think will be invited to the Republican National Convention? Hmmm...perhaps we should even invite them into the Presidential box there as Michael Moore was at the dems convention. Another difference between the two parties.

whoops, what a ****storm has brewed up here...
k gonna debunk your re: my post real quick


quote: Actually the economy had slumped. A recession was on its way and it very shortly after his inauguration and before 911.

Yup. But my point was that he was campaigning on the "I'll cut your taxes so help me god" platform, promising cutbacks topping 400 billion even before the summer of 2000. Therefore, his tax cuts were not motivated by an iota of fiscal sense, but by the get-me-votes factor.

quote: What is wrong with making the tax cuts permanent.

If you say A (tax cuts), you should be prepared to say B (cut spending). Bush has been screaming A while barely whimpering about B. That is not acceptable. Moreover, there is no such thing as permanent in a modern economy - I don't see the logic in trying to permanently implement a set of tax cuts.


quote: That is not to say that revenue doesnt increase when the tax rate is high, but simply that as you raise the tax rate on the upper echelon of earners you CREATE less top bracket payers. Refer back to the time period during and just after world war I when the numbers of earners in the highest bracket shrank dramatically which in turn slowed the rate of revenue growth for the government.

I'm not an economist either, but those statements don't appear logical. I don't see how taxes on the top echelon should prevent others from reaching that level, or how you "create" rich people by taxing rich people less. You don't get taxed like a top earner until you are one, and the vast majority of top earners personal taxable income doesn't get invested in a particularly effective manner. Be serious, BC - are you really going to start claiming trickle down in 2004 is beneficial to the American economy?

quote: Finally the last point you make has to do with government spending. If that were really a concern you would NEVER vote democrat.

Government spending isn't bad per, although its often more wasteful than it should be. However that wasn't my point. My point was that if you plan on lowering taxes, you should lower spending (or at least plan to). I'm not a party ideologue, i'm in favor of fiscal responsibility.

quote: The deficit is again a direct result of 911. Surely you can see that fighting the war on terror is gonna cause us deficits for years to come.

You're not exempt from a certain level of fiscal responsibility even when fighting a war against a concept (btw, why does your straight shooter president keep talking about "terrorism" when everyone knows we're fighting militant islam). Moreover, if I'm going to gauge the success of our war against "terror" by our performance the past four years, i'd say we're screwed. After moving from a surplus to 9 trillion in the red - what have we accomplished?

quote: We have two choices...let them attack us here or fight them over there.

That's not how it works, unfortunately.

quote: Sigh, another fooled sheep. Surely you dont REALLY believe that is his only intention. I suppose you believe that he can somehow force businesses to stay here too (much like he did his wifes). I suppose you also belive the dems ONLY want take away those automatic machine guns too.

Are we going to start arguing conspiracy theories? I'd rather not.

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector


1. Macarthur initially estimated casualties at almost 100k during the first 90 days.

This was BEFORE the Army Air Corp started their bombing raids. By the time we dropped the Nuclear bombs Japan's will to fight was all but gone, and their armies were starving.

quote:
1. Given by a renowned military historian.
2. Truman says he was given estimates of 250k to 1 million casualties by Macarthur at Potsdam for the invasion of BOTH of Japans major islands.

Which "renowned" historian? Doesn't matter, wouldn't be the first time an historian lied! Also, Truman himself lied about the estimates and there is more than enough proof of this, a simple "Google" search will bear this out, but again, I know you aren't a lover of facts, you are a lover of propoganda.

quote:
4. Many historians think that continued bombing and blockading of Japan would starve them into surrender.

Actually you've got that wrong. Most credible historians believe they were already starved into surrender when we dropped the bomb!

quote:
6. The estimates of the shape of the Japanese airforce has been proven to be wrong. We intitially estimated that they had around 6500 planes. Post war inventory however showed there were over 12000 planes there and that the Japanese intended to use many of these planes as kamikazes. On Okinawa alone they used 1400 kamikazes and we lost 5000 sailors. You do the math.[/qoute]

Now THAT'S just sheer nonsense!

quote:
Who knows if eventually communism (or the democratic party) would have overrun Japan if we had allowed them to go back to their imperial system.


Heh, and you said you did your research! Removing their Imperial System was NOT one of our demands on surrender. The Imperial System was not disbanded or overthrown at the end of world war II. You just lost all credibility in your research.

I have never seen so much liberal nonsense in one place before I do not even know where to begin. I will be honest here, and I await the insults to my intelligence later. I have not read 90% of what has been posted in this fourm for two reasons.

#1. I can see that the person posting thinks as I do, and I can almost guess what the next sentence will be… yep I was right… No need to continue, I know what he is saying.

#2. This person is living on a planet that I banged in a game that ended 13 years ago. What is being said is not logical and appears to be based in hatred for somebody that is doing what he said he would do. Im not going to give michael moore’s movie any of my time so I have to be consistant here as well. Lets face it… it is the same nonsense.

However I will say this! All you people out there that want to put God in the back seat of things, and sometimes kick him out altogether I really hope you guys have a back up plan for when the warrenty on your body expires. Turn your back on him and he will do the same to you. You don’t want the child… that is fine. Give him/her up for adoption. If your body goes downhill afterwards… it is called a gym… check into it.

John Kerry is everything to everybody. I can imagine if he were to become President that he would start the day going North. Sometime around lunch time he will take a hard left turn. Around dinner time I can imagine another left turn so by morning time of the next day we are South of where we started the day before. The man changes his mind more than a woman in a shoe store.

Atleast when Bush says he is going to do something you don’t have to guess what he meant by it. If this mess in the middle east is not cleaned up by us our children will have to do it. Lets do it for our children.

quote:Originally posted by Dr-Doog

Im not going to give michael moore’s movie any of my time so I have to be consistant here as well. Lets face it… it is the same nonsense.

That's interesting because I have no idea who Michael Moore is, and I've never seen his "movie."

quote:
I really hope you guys have a back up plan for when the warrenty on your body expires. Turn your back on him and he will do the same to you.

Ever hear the phrase "take not the name of the Lord Thy God in vain?"

God has been used to justify EVERY major atrocity against mankind that has ever been committed. More people have been killed in the name of "Jesus" than in any other name!

People who use God to further their political goals are di****able!

I hope THEY have a backup plan for when their body expires because they will go to him saying "didn't we do this and that in your name, didn't we drop a nuclear bomb in your name?" We know what his answer will be. "Depart from me you doer of iniquity."

quote:
At least when Bush says he is going to do something you don’t have to guess what he meant by it.


Never mind that what he says he's going to do and what he does are both wrong?

Heh, as long as he does what he says, he's your hero?

You must think Hitler was a really great guy!

quote:
If this mess in the middle east is not cleaned up by us our children will have to do it. Lets do it for our children.

I have two questions for you...

1. Do you have any children in the Militar or serving in Iraq? I didn't think so!

2. Are you going to go over and serve in Iraq? I didn't think so!

It's easy to ask everyone else's to "clean up a mess" for YOU and YOUR children isn't it?

Finally, just so you don't have to ask, my answer to both of those questions is yes and yes!

I've been in the United States Military now since 1981, and I have been over there!

Although I don't have a son or daughter over there, my name sake, my brother's son is over there right now!

What gets me is this, people who come into forums like this and spout platitudes and repeat ridiculous propoganda with NO personal experience at all in the subject matter. I've been in the THICK of the Federal Government for decades, no one knows better than I how corrupt it is, and I've swarn to obey and protect FIVE Presidents!

I'm as American as Apple Pie! Yet, I'm not so stupid as to believe everything any politician tells me.

I've served my country ever since High School.

What have YOU done for your country? How bout you Bone? What have you done.

I've sat and born your insults, and your accusations, and listened to people ICQ me and tell me that I'm a know at all, but you know what, at least I've got some PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE to back up MY OPINIONS. I've got valid and REAL information upon which to MAKE and INFORMED OPINION!

All I've seen from Bone is just RUBBISH!



[/quote]

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord

quote:Originally posted by Dr-Doog

Im not going to give michael moore’s movie any of my time so I have to be consistant here as well. Lets face it… it is the same nonsense.

That's interesting because I have no idea who Michael Moore is, and I've never seen his "movie."

quote:
I really hope you guys have a back up plan for when the warrenty on your body expires. Turn your back on him and he will do the same to you.

Ever hear the phrase "take not the name of the Lord Thy God in vain?"

God has been used to justify EVERY major atrocity against mankind that has ever been committed. More people have been killed in the name of "Jesus" than in any other name!

People who use God to further their political goals are di****able!

I hope THEY have a backup plan for when their body expires because they will go to him saying "didn't we do this and that in your name, didn't we drop a nuclear bomb in your name?" We know what his answer will be. "Depart from me you doer of iniquity."

quote:
At least when Bush says he is going to do something you don’t have to guess what he meant by it.


Never mind that what he says he's going to do and what he does are both wrong?

Heh, as long as he does what he says, he's your hero?

You must think Hitler was a really great guy!

quote:
If this mess in the middle east is not cleaned up by us our children will have to do it. Lets do it for our children.

I have two questions for you...

1. Do you have any children in the Militar or serving in Iraq? I didn't think so!

2. Are you going to go over and serve in Iraq? I didn't think so!

It's easy to ask everyone else's to "clean up a mess" for YOU and YOUR children isn't it?

Finally, just so you don't have to ask, my answer to both of those questions is yes and yes!

I've been in the United States Military now since 1981, and I have been over there!

Although I don't have a son or daughter over there, my name sake, my brother's son is over there right now!

What gets me is this, people who come into forums like this and spout platitudes and repeat ridiculous propoganda with NO personal experience at all in the subject matter. I've been in the THICK of the Federal Government for decades, no one knows better than I how corrupt it is, and I've swarn to obey and protect FIVE Presidents!

I'm as American as Apple Pie! Yet, I'm not so stupid as to believe everything any politician tells me.

I've served my country ever since High School.

What have YOU done for your country? How bout you Bone? What have you done.

I've sat and born your insults, and your accusations, and listened to people ICQ me and tell me that I'm a know at all, but you know what, at least I've got some PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE to back up MY OPINIONS. I've got valid and REAL information upon which to MAKE and INFORMED OPINION!

All I've seen from Bone is just RUBBISH!




[/quote]

I was in the military, and my father was at Vietnam. My Grandfather was at Pearl Harbor and the battle of Midway. Hell I’m a distant cousin of Robert E. Lee. Do you know who that is? You are not the only poor soul to have served his country, and as far as going over there … I put my right hand up and swore to protect my country, and sense my word is worth something I would go and be Darn proud to.

Don’t proceed to sit your candy Butt on your side of the computer screen thinking what kind of man I am weather or not I would go to the middle east. I would go back but I would go back usmc.

I would have responded sooner to this but I figured that I would not get an intelligent response and you have proved me right. You do know why liberals are called the “left” right? In case you did not know, it is not polite to call them wrong.