My favorite edit is the Starwars edit - seems to have something for both red and blue - red solo (CFS) has a 1 tpw ship with very good capabilities, blues have planets that can get 1:1 on fig production and also have the best ship. If the red doesn't hit the blue fairly quick, then the blue's fig production will out produce what the red can steal - probably by day 3 or 4. So, do you gamble as a red that you can find the blue and take their base, or play blue and roll the dice that way?

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Perhaps I have been a little vague in my red / blue discussions so I will try a different approach.

There are two scenarios, which have nothing to do with each other:
1.) Red vs blue. There is no mix corp, there is no corp, we are comparing red vs blue
2.) Mixed Corps

1.) As has been repeated time and time again, the extra cash the reds have don't even with the crappy ships.

2.) Well DUH! The point to a mix corp is that reds cash and blues do other things. If this is the entire argument, what a friggin waste all the bandwidth has been. OF COURSE a mixed corp will out cash a all blue corp. I am somewhat confused at what SGO's point is. If I and my 2 blue elite friends pickup 3 newbie reds, and have them cash for us, and we kill everything, I don't see the red advantage. I see the corp advantage. A mixed corp should usually outperform a non mixed corp, unless very special edits.

The arguments have been that edits favor reds, but all the post keep talking about having blues with the reds. That means edits favor the corp, not red or blue.

Now back to my very original post about this. If you feel that a red has an advantage somewhere in this mixed corp scenario, than look at my original post. I think I covered all the things to handle that.

Jhereg

i actually didnt really understand what you were drivin at to begin with
cause as you said, most edits require a mixed corp - so its really not a question of whether 1 color has an 'advantage' as they're both vital

i was really looking at it from a red vs. blue point of view, and in a sense i agree with SGo. i always figured if a corp / player had to pick a 'color' in a stock game, that color would be red.

i always pick the color green.

heh

Just my two space bucks.

But it seemed like way back when before I became the kool kat I am today <G> (Hurts pay patting self on back) that it was Darn rare when a red survived long enough to be able to kick everyones butt. However, if they did, than pretty much the red seemed to lock the game up. <Old BBS days>

Now adays, with advanced tactics and some strategy that anyone can read on some of the forums we all like that are linked to this site even, red has a similar problem, how to survive the first few days if there are alot of blues out there. Given that though, I see the same results that I seen 13 years ago, if a red can survive the initial onslaught of blues than the red will have a substantially better chance of taking the game. Hence why I decided this go around with Tradewars I was going to learn at least the basic aspects of red play. Hopefully I am learning some advanced stuff, but, I am an old kat, hard to learn new tricks even when I pay attention to the humans trying to teach me.

You can through all the math out the door though when it comes to corps on the topic of blue and red. There are somenights when the small corp I am on can earn 120M credits with 3 reds and a blue other nights when it seems we can not make enough to keep me in litter.

Either way, with the advances in Tradewars I feel the game favors teams and generally red if the red can survive long enough to get ahold of colos.

So although SGO was bad to this kitty the other day and didnt help me keep my fur clean, he is at least on the right track. IMHO

Suralle the Kat

My original point was simply this. You asked what were good edits to make a game more "balanced" my answer was simple. There are no such edits. Not until Blues can rob and steal like the reds. Any edit you make to benefit the blue will also benefit the red player. (with the given exception of making a ship commission only and making it better than a red player's ship).

Many have claimed to make "edited games" that are more balanced, I have found they are kidding themselves, simply because reds can always steal, they don't have to buy anything, and blues have to buy things.

quote:Draconis said:
There are two scenarios, which have nothing to do with each other:
1.) Red vs blue. There is no mix corp, there is no corp, we are comparing red vs blue
2.) Mixed Corps

For scenario 1, in what reality would this particular game exist? I've never seen such a game.

For scenario 2, you don't have to be mixed corps to take advantage of the blue working with the red.

heh, it seems to me those who have disagreed with me have wanted to say "ok, then, let's have a one on one game, I'll play blue and you play red and we'll see who has the "advantage."

Well, my answer is simply this, by strict GAME design, and with a few tweakings of the editor, yes, you could have a game balanced in favor of blue IF the red plays alone, and gets no teamwork going with others!

That's a very big IF, any red that tries to go it alone is not a very good red player.

So we can summarize their argument as follows.

"Blue will have the advantage if the red player is not very good, and tries to play the game alone, with nothing but other red players to help him or her."

Ok, they win their argument!

Shrug!

*Assuming somewhat stock game...minimal edits*

Reds find it difficult to function well without blues to save their turns. Blue can live without reds.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Blues can live without reds as long as Angus Thermopyle isn't in the game

SGO - I'm sure you'd love to beat me in a game. Since you think a red has such an advantage over a blue, when is our game? I will play only blue and you can play only red. I don't want any edit tweaks. I'm willing to go bone stock, although a few more turns, a modification to the sectors, and live photons might be nice.

There are 3 possible configurations. Mixed, red, or blue. Since the thread talked about red vs. blue, that is what everyone but SGO has been talking about. Most edits favor a mixed corp, with dynamic alocations of duties as the game progresses. However, a mixed corp is NOT a red corp. Please stop saying "red is best" then talking about a red/blue combo. This is one of those cases where people are going to start being rude to you. We are discussing whether apples or oranges are better, and you start insisting that grapes are best.

i like watermelons
sgo, its EASY to make a game where reds can't even get a foot in the door. i saw it somewhere even.
steal=800%
can you say ouch? heh

slim

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

However, a mixed corp is NOT a red corp. Please stop saying "red is best" then talking about a red/blue combo. This is one of those cases where people are going to start being rude to you. We are discussing whether apples or oranges are better, and you start insisting that grapes are best.


OK and I'll say this again, in what reality is this where the reds aren't working with blues to win the game? I'll repeat it again. If a red isn't working "mixed" he's not very good, and yes in that scenario, a group of blues up against a red corp that's too stupid to get blues to colonize for them and such, well you are right Harley they will lose no matter how much cash they make.

You say everyone here is talking "strictly red" with "no mixed blues helping."

Well everyone is talking about a suck Butt red corp who don't know what they are doing, and yes, they will lose every time.

End of argument!

Hmmm let me see if i got this straight.
FACT: REDs Beat Blues no matter what the edits.
Fact: NO Game Can be favoable to the Blues.
fact: RED VS Blue RED Wins Blue Loses.
fAct: Stock Games Favor REDs
FaCt: Edit Games Favor REDS
fAcT: Nobody plays all red or all blue teams . so the red teams always wins.
facT: The Mixed Corp always wins,

I am sorry the facts.FACTS,FaCts are so many and varied I dont know which one is true. I am so confused........<shrugs> i guess i will go play Poker.

I don't know why I make the mistake of thinking you are willing to have a rational discussion. You keep repeating the same things that have no bearing on the discussion at hand. We ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT MIXED CORPS! If you want to discuss mixed corps against just blues or just reds, go start another thread. I personally view comparisons of red vs blue in light of solo games, where you have to make a choice and mixed corps are not an option. One last thing for you to ponder, if a red can't win without blue support (which is what you JUST said), where does the power lie?