Ok, I've been hearing a lot about "bots" these days, and, unless I'm confused, how SOME OF THEM that are being used appear to work is that I can log into a game, then leave my character in, a corp member utilizing some sort of script mechanism and preset triggers can then manipulate my character, along with his or her character to play the game.

Now, I understand that I logged in, but what is the difference in this and when someone logs IN as your character, then logs his or her character in and then starts playing both characters?

I myself can't see any real difference!

In fact, years ago, on a long ago system I used to have my wife log into tradewars, then, I'd sit down and play her character. It started out innocent enough, I sat down and was showing her how to play, and one day she went to answer the phone or something and I kept going.

It got so I'd ask her before she went to bed "are you going to play tradewars," she'd shrug, log in then go to bed.

One day at a "get together" for this system, it came out that she didn't really know how to play. The sysop was listening, and he was intrigued because he'd seen her playing numerous times. She then had to admit that it was actually me at the keys.

He immediately deleted both our characters and I was banned from his games for a month!

She was the one logging in, not me, I merely manipulated her character afterward.

What in the world is the difference between what I got banned for, and what is going on with bots these days?

Really guys, I can't see a difference in the least.

A dupe is a character a single person creates and uses!

A bot is a script a different persun runs while they are AFK so they can do stuff while away. The player does play, but very few people sit at keys 24/7!

Get it?!?

By that Rational SGO a pdrop script or a coloniser is no different...or any script for that matter...Oh crap i gotta run to the post office real fast...ahh i'll just leave my colonizer going so i don't have to be at the keys 24/7 same with a pdrop script or a bot

quote:Originally posted by Rofellos


The player does play, but very few people sit at keys 24/7!

Get it?!?

What you've described is a standard script. I'm talking about these scripts that allow other people to PLAY you're character while you are away. You aren't playing your character if *I'M* the one at the keys controlling your character remotely using hot keys. You might call that "playing" your character, but most "reasonable" people would not.




quote:Originally posted by Strider_2001

By that Rational SGO a pdrop script or a coloniser is no different...or any script for that matter...

Not even the same, what I'm talking about is I log on, leave, and YOU take over playing my character with some script sync! That's what I'm talking about, it's not the same as me have preset things in mind to do in the game, so I sit down, write a script that performs those tasks (or download one) and then let the thing run. NO what we're talking about is someone else TAKING OVER your character and playing the game with it!

It's the exact same as duping. NO difference.

quote:Originally posted by Rofellos

A dupe is a character a single person creates and uses!



Not necessarily! A DUPE is someone that you "manipulate" a "puppet." It could a friend or spouses character that they created for you, and you now play (in addition to your own character). That is a DUPE in it's classic sense. Some guys cut out the middle man an make their own second or third character, but still having someone create one for you, then logging on as that character is still duping! Most Sysops ban it.

What is the difference between you creating a character, then giving me the password and I log in and play that character, or you creating a character, giving me a password to a script that allows me to run that character remotely? There is absolutely no difference my friend.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord

quote:Originally posted by Rofellos

A dupe is a character a single person creates and uses!



Not necessarily! A DUPE is someone that you "manipulate" a "puppet." It could a friend or spouses character that they created for you, and you now play (in addition to your own character). That is a DUPE in it's classic sense. Some guys cut out the middle man an make their own second or third character, but still having someone create one for you, then logging on as that character is still duping! Most Sysops ban it.

What is the difference between you creating a character, then giving me the password and I log in and play that character, or you creating a character, giving me a password to a script that allows me to run that character remotely? There is absolutely no difference my friend.




Duping goes way back to the BBS days. I recall a Ducheck family that I played against. It appeared that they had every member of the family play, including the dog, Fido Ducheck. The SYSOP of that BBS apparently did not voice validate and validated people without checking first.

Ok a script, has to have a real player. This real player can be verified, a dupe cannot. The real player has turns, which can be used by them or the bot. Some people just run WorldSSM scripts in an unlimited game for hours and make a ton of cash. Anyway, the bot can do anything the player can do. So basically it is allowing a corpie to remote control another corpie to use their turns to do whatever they want them to do. Buydown ports, pwarp planets, etc. This is great for corpies that cannot play their turns each day, just have them run a bot 24 hours a day. That is a no-brainer if they have a 24 hour connection.

This seems to be similar to another thread, but heck, might as well respond here also.

What is the difference? Well as a script author, I have yet to write a script that can BOT someone effectively as I can play. A bot can only react to pre programmed stimuli, while duping, you can act as normal. A bot requires complex commands to do sometimes simple things, a dupe just requires a seperate window. Lets see, other issues, a BOT can easily get confused, and hang, a dupe would not.

Also, if I am duping, I can relog if I get dropped, if I have a corpie running a bot, it is nowhere near as easy.

Probably the biggest issue. Running a Bot that reacts to stimuli, is Only one difference than running an AFK Pdrop. Who triggers it. If SGO is on corp2, and I am on corp1, and my corp1 sends a SS command that tells me to lift off planet and launch a wave of figs at SGO, it is no different than SGO hitting a fig in a sector, my script determines his next likely hit, jumps ahead, adjust the cannon, when he enters, surround the sector, and SD him.

The only difference is that SGO triggered the script, not a corpie.

It could be argued that the BOT required a second player. That is correct, but unless you are an INCREDIBLE player, you are better to have 6 real corpies who can run bots as needed, vs one person with 5 bots all the time.

Jhereg

Drac I see your point, and Orion Blastar I see your point.

Certainly it's not "quite" the same. It's almost the same though, and it accomplishes the same thing that logging on as two characters does, just uses a different method of accomplishing the same thing.

I think you understimate the script writing capability of some of these guys, I've seen their bots in action first hand (corping with them). They are pretty elaborate and can do just about anything, including talk on Fed Comm as the other person.

As they get better and better at this, the line between duping and botting will get narrower and narrower, it's just inevitable.

shrug. But I see your point in that duping is still the most effective way to play another's character.....

For now!

With today's programs and all that good stuff out there, there can be a single person with 5 dupes in the game and the sysop wouldnt be able to tell. as long as that person used common sense.
no more can the sysop node spy and wait to hear them talk, for IM programs and other things have taken that place.
... there can be a lot more said with this, but im busy at work and theres no need to say it all.. so ill leave it at that.

The difference is YOU can get one of these BOTS and run it yourself. It isn't a advantage that is outta reach. Just DL stbot or supgbot and viola. You can now have your turns run by a corpie. You still can't dupe though.

I think a different question should be asked. Instead of saying "Bots are like duping, so they're bad," let's examine what bots actually do. Upside: They allow you to play a game without having to dedicate hours and hours to it every day. If you have to go out to the store, you don't leave your corpies screwed, you're still available to do certain things. At the same time, once you come back, you can run turns too. It gives a corp with limited time the ability to more easily coordinate their playing. If someone can't make it one night, their turns can still be used, making the competative with a corp of people who has no life outside of trade wars. Let's look at the supposed detrimental nature of bots. Someone else can use some of your turns. Why is that inherently bad? If someone has loads of free time, they don't need a bot. Why should someone without as much free time be at a disadvantage?

quote:Originally posted by LokIEOD

The difference is YOU can get one of these BOTS and run it yourself. It isn't a advantage that is outta reach. Just DL stbot or supgbot and viola. You can now have your turns run by a corpie. You still can't dupe though.


I can make the same argument on classic duping. They, too, can have a friend make a character for them, or make a new one themselves, so the Duper has no real advantage?

Soon you've got 5 people in a game with 200 characters, all being played by those 5, it's no longer the game it was meant to be, it's become who can "cheat" more effectively and utilize those "cheats" to the best advantage.

Oh, wait! Isn't that EXACTLY what the game has become with all these "bots and scripts?" I think so! You know, though, it's just my opinion, I'm not faulting anyone, just pointing out that if someone else is using MY turns, for WHATEVER reason, it USED to be called cheating, now it's called "good effective use of the turns by the Corp." (See Harley's response).

I thought I explained this for everyone. How is it cheating when YOU can do it to. YOU to can write a script or dl one. It isn't hard. There are no big servers that don't allow you to use these bots. It is now part of the game. Change is a you know what, but you change or get left in the I wish I only had 1 hour online and 100 turns days.





LokI is powering up weapons systems!

why did you pick that picture loki. a mean looking clown.

I love the book IT.








LokI is powering up weapons systems!