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a weird bubble
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9492		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Damion [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:30 am ]
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Looking through the dead-end finder in swath, I was firing probes down each dead-end when I came upon a curious occurence; a completely inaccessible bubble. After making sure that all my avoids were off, I found that not only the bubble but a large number of sectors around the bubble were inaccessible from the outside. I've come to the conclusion that something very weird happened during sector creation and then I thought about the possibility of making it inside; it would be an almost perfect defense.

Any ideas or thoughts? :)
Author:  TychoCane [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:04 am ]
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Have you tried getting to these sectors from various locations? Its possible the maximum warp distance was set lower then calculating allowed. This is one of the several ways you can make a universe unstable and difficult to rule over.
Author:  Boss [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:48 am ]
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or if you can identify sectors in the bubble you can try buying cheap twarp capable ships and try to blind into one of them and check it out. Dont know if it will work but it sounds like its worth a try.
Author:  Damion [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:53 am ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by Shorty

or if you can identify sectors in the bubble you can try buying cheap twarp capable ships and try to blind into one of them and check it out. Dont know if it will work but it sounds like its worth a try.


is fusing a pod or a death?
Author:  Boss [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:04 am ]
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Fusing is just like getting blown up...worst that can happen is you cant get out to get another ship...then just drop your fighter and self destruct so you have a beacon to twarp to then.
Author:  TychoCane [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:09 am ]
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quote:Originally posted by Damion
[bris fusing a pod or a death?


Fuseing is , as Shorty explained "just like getting blown up" heh.

Do all of the ships with transwarp capability carry a pod?

Also, I thought we established that if you haven't seen the sector - your most likely not to make the jump? I'm not sure about this but I remember reading from someone's post that its best to shoot a probe to the sector to make sure there are no beacons and/or fighters pre-set in the sector or else its most certain you wont succede. In this case, a probe is not an option is it? heh Probably a stupid question but have you tried shooting a probe to the sectors unreachable??
Author:  Boss [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:34 pm ]
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Looks like he was shooting probes when he found it from his first post. I have been successful at blind warping into big bubbles early in a game where someone has blocked the door and hasnt been smart enough to fill all bubble sectors with fighters. True it is a crap shoot but there is a chance you will be blind warping to an empty sector in which case your safe. Then you just need to deploy fighters as a beacon and check out the bubble. Good luck.
Author:  DEMON [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:40 pm ]
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Yes, but if he is unable to get to the sector then he will not be able to explore them. He can blind jump, and as long as there is not a port in the sector then he would be ok. Then he can explore hope there is a s## port and warp out. If he does not have enough fuel. Sounds like a great place for a base if you can get in. No one would be able to warp in if you put a fig in every sector.
Author:  Traitor [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:40 pm ]
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It's probably one of four things:
1. The sysop made it for some reason.
2. The TW database is hosed.
3. The Maximum Course Length is set to less than default (45 hops)
4. The game was banged with Gold Bubbles, which can sometimes create bubbles that are more than 45 hops away from SD or Terra.

#3 and #4 are the most likely. If it's #1 or #2, there probably isn't much you can do. You can't blind warp to a sector that you have no route too. Nor can you use planet X-porters or P-warp. (Just tried on my test box. [8D])

Since you already mentioned that you use Swath, you might be able to pick up the missing sectors on your ztm or visual map. If you have probed everything but those missing sectors, another thing you can try is to pull a manual CIM (get the sector Info, ^i) and save it to a file. Then run a search in the file to see if you pick up any of those missing sectors. You may find that they are connected to a sector you already have seen.

If all else fails, you can try using your computer to plot a course from each of the sectors to another set of sectors. (like if the sectors you can't see are 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, etc.., try plotting from 1001 to 1111 and 1111 to 1001. Then do it for several other sectors, like 2222, 3333, 4444 for example. You want to pick sectors that are already a good number of hops from SD and Terra. I try to use any 6 ways that are 10+ hops from Terra and SD. If it's reason #3 or #4, this method will eventually get you a path to the missing sectors. This is a pain, but it will work when the helpers fail.

Hope you find them.
Author:  TychoCane [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by Shorty

Looks like he was shooting probes when he found it from his first post.


Like I said..stupid question. [:o)] heh

I'm still thinking it has something to do with the warp distance though. I've played in games where this was a nice touch for aggressive playing.
Author:  Thistledown [ Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:33 pm ]
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If the sysop didn't do some editing, you might want to check the version # of the TWGS too. There was a bug with bigbang that was found a version or two ago that could in very rare cases generate a universe with inacessible sectors or 'black holes' (one way in, no way out).
Author:  Kemper_3 [ Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by Traitor

It's probably one of four things:
1. The sysop made it for some reason.
2. The TW database is hosed.
3. The Maximum Course Length is set to less than default (45 hops)
4. The game was banged with Gold Bubbles, which can sometimes create bubbles that are more than 45 hops away from SD or Terra.

#3 and #4 are the most likely. If it's #1 or #2, there probably isn't much you can do. You can't blind warp to a sector that you have no route too. Nor can you use planet X-porters or P-warp. (Just tried on my test box. [8D])

Since you already mentioned that you use Swath, you might be able to pick up the missing sectors on your ztm or visual map. If you have probed everything but those missing sectors, another thing you can try is to pull a manual CIM (get the sector Info, ^i) and save it to a file. Then run a search in the file to see if you pick up any of those missing sectors. You may find that they are connected to a sector you already have seen.

If all else fails, you can try using your computer to plot a course from each of the sectors to another set of sectors. (like if the sectors you can't see are 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, etc.., try plotting from 1001 to 1111 and 1111 to 1001. Then do it for several other sectors, like 2222, 3333, 4444 for example. You want to pick sectors that are already a good number of hops from SD and Terra. I try to use any 6 ways that are 10+ hops from Terra and SD. If it's reason #3 or #4, this method will eventually get you a path to the missing sectors. This is a pain, but it will work when the helpers fail.

Hope you find them.

There is a bigbang problem with gold bubbles and tunnel lengths that can make this happen, if I remember correctly. It's truly unaccesable.
Author:  Damion [ Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by Traitor

It's probably one of four things:
1. The sysop made it for some reason.
2. The TW database is hosed.
3. The Maximum Course Length is set to less than default (45 hops)
4. The game was banged with Gold Bubbles, which can sometimes create bubbles that are more than 45 hops away from SD or Terra.

#3 and #4 are the most likely. If it's #1 or #2, there probably isn't much you can do. You can't blind warp to a sector that you have no route too. Nor can you use planet X-porters or P-warp. (Just tried on my test box. [8D])

Since you already mentioned that you use Swath, you might be able to pick up the missing sectors on your ztm or visual map. If you have probed everything but those missing sectors, another thing you can try is to pull a manual CIM (get the sector Info, ^i) and save it to a file. Then run a search in the file to see if you pick up any of those missing sectors. You may find that they are connected to a sector you already have seen.

If all else fails, you can try using your computer to plot a course from each of the sectors to another set of sectors. (like if the sectors you can't see are 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, etc.., try plotting from 1001 to 1111 and 1111 to 1001. Then do it for several other sectors, like 2222, 3333, 4444 for example. You want to pick sectors that are already a good number of hops from SD and Terra. I try to use any 6 ways that are 10+ hops from Terra and SD. If it's reason #3 or #4, this method will eventually get you a path to the missing sectors. This is a pain, but it will work when the helpers fail.

Hope you find them.


Hi Traitor,

Thanks for your detailed answer. I believe the max course length is 60 (*** Error - No route within 60 warps from sector xxx) so #3 shouldn't be an issue. I'll try what you suggested and get back to you.

BTW Swath also has this info on it:
Bubble size...: 3
Bubble depth..: 3
Distance to StarDock: 9
Distance to sector 1: 14
Author:  Boss [ Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
I dont use gold bubbles on my server because if I remember correctly they are 100 sector minimum bubbles which in my opinion is way too big to have in a NORMAL game...note I said NORMAL for those who would start an argument over it. I can see them being used in other game types which I have not set up yet. But for someone to control this type of bubble in a normal game...especially a RED corp...would give them way too much power over the game and I try to keep things as balanced as possible. If Swath is showing the bubble as only 3 deep and 3 in size then its not a gold bubble. Most likely your sysop did some sector tweaking and messed it up is what I would guess. Good luck anyway.
Author:  Damion [ Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
quote:Originally posted by Shorty

I dont use gold bubbles on my server because if I remember correctly they are 100 sector minimum bubbles which in my opinion is way too big to have in a NORMAL game...note I said NORMAL for those who would start an argument over it. I can see them being used in other game types which I have not set up yet. But for someone to control this type of bubble in a normal game...especially a RED corp...would give them way too much power over the game and I try to keep things as balanced as possible. If Swath is showing the bubble as only 3 deep and 3 in size then its not a gold bubble. Most likely your sysop did some sector tweaking and messed it up is what I would guess. Good luck anyway.


Actually I neglected to mention that although that is a 3 sector bubble, it is a small bubble in a much larger unknown space. It looks like at least 20, if not more, sectors are contained in what I've termed "outer space."
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