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Change to Retreat in TWGS? I say yes... https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11427	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Col Sanders [ Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:01 pm ]
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I remember a while back, JP changed the retreat or was it flee to take a turn every so often, but not always... So, playing in USO, thought we could revisit this. A player got photoned upon entering a sector, had the presence of mind to kill the fig, then deploy a corp fig. Then, he dropped corp, made a new corp, and quit the game. He came back into the game, and retreated, ended up back at SD. While, this is a fairly well known ploy, to escape being killed after being photoned, should it be allowed? I would say no, I think moving should take turns period. Whether its fleeing or retreating, it should take turns to move your ship. Anyway, thought I would bring up the topic and open it for comments. Col Sanders "Jedi do not concern me" -The Sith

Author:	fuseblown [ Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:13 pm ]
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Hmmm...I agree with Sanders on this one. It should cost something to flee...or better yet...if you were photoned and have NO turns...you should not be allowed to retreat from a fighter, period. You should be forced to either Attack, Pay the toll (if applicable), or Surrender your ship. If you choose to Surrender your ship it should then let you past the toll, but you stay in the same sector. Perhaps even count that as a death?? That point may be taking it too far however... But anyway, those are my thoughts if they're worth anything. Fuseblown http://www.thestardock.com

Author:	Rave [ Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:14 pm ]
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quote: I remember a while back, JP changed the retreat or was it flee to take a turn every so often, but not always... So, playing in USO, thought we could revisit this. A player got photoned upon entering a sector, had the presence of mind to kill the fig, then deploy a corp fig. Then, he dropped corp, made a new corp, and quit the game. He came back into the game, and retreated, ended up back at SD. While, this is a fairly well known ploy, to escape being killed after being photoned, should it be allowed? I would say no, I think moving should take turns period. Whether its fleeing or retreating, it should take turns to move your ship. Anyway, thought I would bring up the topic and open it for comments. I'd hate to see this removed. I think anyone should be able to retreat from a sector at any time in order to avoid destruction. It should -always- be harder to destroy a player than it is for that player to escape the situation. This is, in effect, very similar to how escape pods can escape interdictor generators, even if more powerful ships are unable. Lisa M. Wilson aka Rave uhndagrowhn bbs uhndagrowhn bbs telnet://uhndagrowhn.merseine.nu

Author:	Col Sanders [ Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:28 pm ]
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<G>, lets discuss who uses this tactic... it is NOT the newbies that need protecting who know how this works, generally, you photon them and they just there to die. Its the predators that use this trick. Further, why then is there a Surrender ship option? I agree with Fuse, when confronted by figs, if you have 0 turns, you should have to deal with those figs. Hard lessons are lessons learned, but scripted escape routines only help those that know what they are doing already. Now, to bring up the realism factor again, escape pods can be explained that the explosion during which you enter your pod, is enough of a force to send your pod some random number of sectors even without turns. As for a pod fleeing an IC or PIG, the explosion creates enough "mass" for lack of a better word, to block an area of large enough size in the oncomming gravity well (or cone, see Star Wars novels regarding how IC's work <G>), giving the pod a split second to escape the sector. Anyway, I haven't ever used this technique to escape being photoned, but I would guess its possible to write a script to use it to move you all over the universe with no use of turns. I would call that a problem, and I am sure you can test this theory to see if allowing such a technique has the potential to destabilize the game <G>. "Jedi do not concern me" -The Sith

Author:	Rave [ Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:17 pm ]
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quote: Anyway, I haven't ever used this technique to escape being photoned, but I would guess its possible to write a script to use it to move you all over the universe with no use of turns. I would call that a problem, and I am sure you can test this theory to see if allowing such a technique has the potential to destabilize the game <G>. If there were ever a reason to look into this a bit more, the above reason would be it. But... I've already been there and done that. When you retreat or flee you retreat or flee into the sector you were previously in. If for any reason you -can't- retreat (i.e. through a one way warp or you blasted off a planet into sector figs), you're stuck at the prompt. So no, you can't move yourself all over the universe at no cost to turns. Lisa M. Wilson aka Rave uhndagrowhn bbs uhndagrowhn bbs telnet://uhndagrowhn.merseine.nu

Author:	Cfposi [ Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:21 pm ]
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I think that the retreat trick should stay, its saved my skin many times running into photon scripts...and I have to agree with Rave in saying that it should be harder to attack then it is to escape. Besides...no matter what kind of player u are, you will always make mistakes, in that case you will want those options available. Also, one of the points of the game (at least I think so) is it's mystery, there are things in the game that you learn as you become more experienced...you can't eliminate those things everytime you discover them!! That would defeat the whole purpose....instead of ridding the game of this problem, u should find a way to overcome it. It is possible, because EVERYTHING is possible, no matter how improbable it may seem. just my very humble opinion. l8ter Proud Member of the Alliance Live Long And Prosper!

Author:	Rave [ Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:30 pm ]
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quote: Also, one of the points of the game (at least I think so) is it's mystery, there are things in the game that you learn as you become more experienced...you can't eliminate those things everytime you discover them!! That would defeat the whole purpose....instead of ridding the game of this problem, u should find a way to overcome it. It is possible, because EVERYTHING is possible, no matter how improbable it may seem. VERY well said! Lisa M. Wilson aka Rave uhndagrowhn bbs uhndagrowhn bbs telnet://uhndagrowhn.merseine.nu

Author:	bdavey [ Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:03 pm ]
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Sorry Col, but a "must use turns or you can't retreat" rule would @#$% the game up big time. If you were to do this: I would put 135k figs in every bubble gate. It is very difficult for you then to attack those figs without getting torped. Right now that's no big deal. Add this rule, and then you can't retreat, so u die, so any bubble I simply put 135k figs in front of is then basically mine... that would be pretty messed up game play. As to this realism crap.... Um, real life doesn't have turns, nor interstellar space ships, nor does space have "dead ends". Get over it. TW is completely non-real. Agrue for changes based on whether they enhance (i.e. make more interesting or more fun) gameplay or not. Realism is irrelevant. Cheers, Dr. Bad

Author:	Col Sanders [ Wed Feb 20, 2002 12:31 am ]
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The, "I would put x figs here or there" thing doesn't help. Lets say I hit those figs and you have a PIG in sector, I am stuck. Why should getting ptorped and losing my turns be LESS severe than getting trapped by an IC or PIG? The idea of no turns is to stop you from moving right? To make the game level in a turn based game. So... If there are tricks to get around being out of turns it defeats the purpose of the turns. As for realism, its making things believable that is cool, look at Star Trek, one of the coolest things about it is the level of detail the owners go to in order to make things believable in some future world. TW is a turn-based RTS, so we accept certain limitations such as turns for the sake of playing, but thats no reason to flaunt game rules, or limitations for no good reason. As to the "mystery" of the game, I have always been an advocate of disclosing what I know about the game, I don't believe the realtivistic crap about a bug being a bug to one person but not another. Clearly, JP is the ultimate authority on whether something is a bug, but generally, when something works the way you know its not supposed to, its a bug. Well, we know photons are supposed to take away turns, thats one of the obvious intentions. We also know retreat exists to allow people out of sticky situations. However, there are times, such as getting stuck by interdictor, or when you are photoned, that it just doesn't make sense to let the person go, but flaunting something like drop corp fig, quit corp, exit game, renter game, retreat. That sequence right there doesn't make any sense, and I will not believe unless told by JP that this was intended. Now if he says thats how he wants it, ok, but I would like to to try and sway him to reason if this is an issue he has not already considered... Col Sanders "Jedi do not concern me" -The Sith

Author:	Mangol [ Wed Feb 20, 2002 2:24 pm ]
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Not that anyone cares, but this topic is similar to the way I've attacked planet quaser cannons from a distance. First thing first, you have to have a fig in the sector. Early on when people don't have the sector cannon on high, this tactic works get. Then I gather up a couple of merchant freighters and head for my home sector, that is if I have a home sector. Get in one and land on the planet. Using the planetary transporter I beam to the enemy sector and immediately land and when I get blown up...my escape pod returns to my home sector. Now isn't that interesting... .\\angol Avail Confederation May God be between you and harms way? bugaboo.playtw.org port 23 Edited by - mangol on February 20 2002 11:26:28 AM

Author:	Cfposi [ Wed Feb 20, 2002 2:36 pm ]
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Now thats a kewl bug....thanks for the tip dude....wicked way to moth...but as I said, bugs like that make the game more interesting...so as a pre-empitve stick to the Colonel, WE SHOULDN'T take that out of the game either Proud Member of the Alliance Live Long And Prosper!

Author:	Col Sanders [ Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:13 pm ]
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That one is not a bug, your pod is supposed to flee, if not impeded, to your ships sector of origin right before you died. So, if you twarp out of sector 1, and fuse your ship, your pod should end up in sector 1. "Jedi do not concern me" -The Sith

Author:	Doctor Who [ Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:49 am ]
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quote: Anyway, I haven't ever used this technique to escape being photoned, but I would guess its possible to write a script to use it to move you all over the universe with no use of turns. I would call that a problem, and I am sure you can test this theory to see if allowing such a technique has the potential to destabilize the game . You would guess wrong .. Make a script and try it .. you'll see >

Author:	Doctor Who [ Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:49 am ]
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quote: Anyway, I haven't ever used this technique to escape being photoned, but I would guess its possible to write a script to use it to move you all over the universe with no use of turns. I would call that a problem, and I am sure you can test this theory to see if allowing such a technique has the potential to destabilize the game . You would guess wrong .. Make a script and try it .. you'll see >

Author:	Doctor Who [ Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:55 am ]
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quote: Not that anyone cares, but this topic is similar to the way I've attacked planet quaser cannons from a distance. First thing first, you have to have a fig in the sector. Early on when people don't have the sector cannon on high, this tactic works get. Then I gather up a couple of merchant freighters and head for my home sector, that is if I have a home sector. Get in one and land on the planet. Using the planetary transporter I beam to the enemy sector and immediately land and when I get blown up...my escape pod returns to my home sector. Now isn't that interesting... Not really no .. Why your going about it in such a way is silly .. Your home sector will just end up with pods .. I think JP should change it around to be honest but oh well that's just me .. Your better towing the ships in with 0 figs .. and then going to stardock and transporting to the mf's .. then when U land and the pod goes boom it ends up at stardock and you can sell it .. as I say .. maybee JP can change this .. >

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