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New Citadel Level Suggestion
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11346		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Nix Marl [ Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:51 am ]
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I would like to see the addition of Planetary Cloaking added to the Citadels. If possibly, this could be an option to upgrade to either shields or cloak. Possibly both, but at a lower shielding rate. (say 100% rate for shields, or X% of shields + Cloak with Y% Failure, or Cloak with Z% failure)

I believe this would be a great addition. Any comments?
Author:  LoRD TaLoN [ Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:54 pm ]
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quote:Originally posted by Nix Marl

I would like to see the addition of Planetary Cloaking added to the Citadels. If possibly, this could be an option to upgrade to either shields or cloak. Possibly both, but at a lower shielding rate. (say 100% rate for shields, or X% of shields + Cloak with Y% Failure, or Cloak with Z% failure)

I believe this would be a great addition. Any comments?


heh, well yes. There are numerous ways this could be abused. Perhaps if it left a specific density rating when cloaked. But besides that, you'd basically have an uninvadable planet, unless it leaves a specific density, and landing is an option if in the sector with one.

Not to mention the pdrop and other such abuses. You're warping through space, and all the sudden your interdictored and a cannon fires on you and nothing is there... heh.

Perhaps make a rule saying the cannons can't fire through the cloak, so if the planet is cloaked, no cannons.

Overall i think its a interesting idea, but real easy to abuse the game with it heh without restrictions.
Author:  Nix Marl [ Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:59 am ]
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quote:
heh, well yes. There are numerous ways this could be abused. Perhaps if it left a specific density rating when cloaked. But besides that, you'd basically have an uninvadable planet, unless it leaves a specific density, and landing is an option if in the sector with one.

Ah yes, the planet would have to have a specific density. But as with all things, the density would also be subject to the number of mine/figs/ships and if there is a port in the sector. As for landing on a cloaked planet, this should only be an option for the owner/owners. As with everything, cloaks are subject to photons. Even with shielded and cloaked planets a good photon (or two) should take out the cloaking. As Per the Interdictor, should also be set by amount of fuel on a planet, with a twist...There should be a min. amount of equipment there also...

quote:
Not to mention the pdrop and other such abuses. You're warping through space, and all the sudden your interdictored and a cannon fires on you and nothing is there... heh.

Perhaps make a rule saying the cannons can't fire through the cloak, so if the planet is cloaked, no cannons.

Another thing would be that you cannot T-Warp a cloaked planet.
NOR would it's Interdictor Generator -or- cannons function under cloak. If the IG were on and functioning, it would defeat the purpose of the cloak, seeing as how a cloaked plannet shouldn't be able to fire it's cannons.

quote:
Overall i think its a interesting idea, but real easy to abuse the game with it heh without restrictions.

If not implemented properly, wouldn't any change in the game be real easy to abuse?
Author:  Slim Shady [ Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:38 am ]
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heh i gotta comment on this when i get back

Slim
Author:  Slim Shady [ Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:14 pm ]
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ok, home.
now, if a planet is cloaked and cant use IG/QC/TW, BUT has density... what is the point in having a cloaked planet? so in games without photons you have an uninvadable planet? is someone is going to invade having to use a photon to uncloak a planet will not deter them.
if someone is hunting, generally they hunt by densities anyway, why waste a turn holo scanning when you can tell what is in a sector by densities? so basically what i am saying, is what would be the point in having a cloakable planet? i sure wouldnt use it. if u can't use IG/QC/TW there is no point, and if you CAN use any of those, it becomes FAR too powerful, so basically, it'll never happen ;)

Slim
Author:  Mighty Mouse [ Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:08 pm ]
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If this feature were added to the game, it would have to work just like a "real" cloak on a Klingon vessel. When the cloak is active, the shields and weapons cannot be used. In order to raise shields or fire weapons, the cloak must be deactivated. The only use the cloak would have then would be to hide a planet while you're offline. But as Slim said, anyone hunting by density would be able to find it anyway.

So I guess I agree with Slim, there really wouldn't be much point to having this.
Author:  Radagast [ Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:57 pm ]
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What if as long as it's cloaked it can't use it's defenses, but once uncloaked or discovered (say by a photon, or some type of scanner), you can set it to raise shields etc.

Another option would be to have cloaking as a second option other than going up the normal path at lvl 3... so you get it instead of a quasar.. Possibly useful in shorter games on non-ore producing planets?
Author:  Slim Shady [ Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:26 pm ]
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no one has answered the most important question. Why? whats the point in cloaking a planet? a planet is used for making money, offense and defense. cloaking it doesnt help make money, it would be FAR too strong in offense, and it wouldnt help at all to defend.

Slim
Author:  Nix Marl [ Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:26 am ]
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quote:no one has answered the most important question. Why? whats the point in cloaking a planet? a planet is used for making money, offense and defense. cloaking it doesnt help make money, it would be FAR too strong in offense, and it wouldnt help at all to defend.

Answer: Cloaking a planet, would prevent those that use Holo Scanners from finding it. Yes, density would find it. But if you have enough ships and other "debris" (figs, Haz, mines) then it would relatively go un-noticed. For new players to the game, this would be an advantage. For those veterans, that know how to disguise things, then it would also be an advantage.

Keep in mind: (1)Only the owner/owners of the cloaked planet should be able to land on it while it's cloaked. (2)It has to be photoned before the other players can see it. (3) Once uncloaked, it's cannons and shields would function as normal. (4) anyone on the planet would be cloaked also.

I just feel, that in certain games, cloaking a planet would be a great asset depending on how you play it. As with everything, it does have it's disadvantages, as it should. And therefore, would be a viable option if it were added to the game.
Author:  Slim Shady [ Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:41 pm ]
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"But if you have enough ships and other "debris" (figs, Haz, mines) then it would relatively go un-noticed."
well, i would assume it would leave an anomoly, IE:photon magnet, so there would be no way to hide it. plus, since people would know about cloaked planets, they would fire photons into all sectors that had the characteristics of a cloaked planet.


(3) Once uncloaked, it's cannons and shields would function as normal.
so when cloaked its shields dont work? heh, bye bye turns. the point in sleeping on a planet is to be safe, if i can make u lose your turns, thats almost as good as killing you.

trust me, cloaking a planet has absolutely no advantage and a few disadvantages to you. it would not deter me for a second but when u lost all your turns when i photon the sector to uncloak the planet, that sucks to be you. specially when u have those shields on there not working. EVEN IF shields worked while cloaked, there would still be no point, because there is just no possible way to hide the planet without making it too powerful (IE:no density, no anomoly) the game is meant to be won, not terminally stalemated.

Slim
Author:  Harley Nuss [ Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:00 am ]
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Lets imagine it reports like a cloaked player. Anomoly in sector, no density. Let us then also assume that there is a large number of sectors in a game with limpet mines, as there frequently are. Now, lets take this into a combat situation. A person sits on their cloaked planet in a sector with limpets so no one knows they're there. What do you think the outcome will be when someone comes through gridding? I'll give you a hint, it is NOT in favor of the person who is gridding. Do we really need more ways to kill someone who is out exploring the universe?
Author:  severian [ Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:23 pm ]
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IMHO Harley, I have seen a couple suggestions for planet upgrades (a shipyard, cloaking, generating shields, etc.) Now some you can use in certain situations, some not. This (and you EIS folks could already be on this) may mean that upgrades (at a certain point, limited by planet type, resources, etc.) need a chance to branch out and you need to OPT to upgrade one way or the other, and think about imposing limits on the functionality of some upgrades ( I.E. a cloaked planet not only needs to decloak to use an IG or cannon, but the cloak also uses a set supply of ore to keep running.)
Author:  Slim Shady [ Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:30 pm ]
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u have someone sitting on the planet, soon as its photoned, bam, its cloaked again. uninvadable planet.

Slim
Author:  SGO Dupe [ Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:54 pm ]
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Hello all-
I'm not a sysop so I hope I don't get in trouble for posting here. If I broke the rules, I'm sorry.

A cloakable planet?

I'm with Slim Shady. Why?

I haven't played in a few years, so I guess I'm new, so I'm not criticizing the idea, I'm just trying to figure it out is all.

The planet is cloaked, it's defenses don't work right? So a player can just hide their planets so they aren't taken while they are out of the game?

That seems like a game that no one can win to me.

Even if you could see it in density, would a photon "decloak" a planet that is shielded? It used to be photons had no effect on planets with a certain amount of shields on them. Maybe that's changed I don't know.

So, anyway, I'm having trouble understanding why you would need a planet that cloaks, unless you just don't know how to properly defend your planet. Wouldn't the logical thing be to learn how to defend your planets?

Like I said, maybe I'm missing something.
Author:  Slim Shady [ Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:17 pm ]
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feel free to post anything anywhere, this subject... heh, maybe in the wrong section, heh.

Slim
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