| www.ClassicTW.com https://mail.black-squirrel.com/ |
|
| Brain Damaged Aliens https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11040 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | craig [ Mon May 27, 2002 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm currently running version .54 I've had several problems with the Aliens for a really long time and I was wondering if and when they are going to be fixed. I made a fuss about the problems last year and was told the Aliens are "work in progress", but have not yet heard anything one way or the other. I remember seeing somewhere that there is work being done on the AI modules for the Aliens, but that's not what I'm interested in at this point. The initial problems were that the Aliens would acquire massive fig counts in their Alien sectors and massive amounts of cash in their citadel. They did not pay any attention to the figs per sector rules and sometimes carried unusually large amounts of cash that could be salvaged when captured or destroyed by a real player. The latest problems started when code was added to keep the fighter counts from going over 50k per Alien sector by deleting any additional fighters over that amount when extern runs. That was a brain damaged way to handle the problem because Aliens will buy figs and/or move figs off of their planet then dump them into their sectors only to get deleted when extern runs. This results in massive losses for the Aliens and makes their home sector too weak and their planet too easily taken. This method needs to be backed out and instead, the Aliens need to observe the figs/sector rule in the same fashion as real players so that they can run up their figs in their home sector and protect their planet. The other thing is that money in their citadel also dissapears for seemingly no reason. This problem appears to have happened around the same time as the fig dissapearing problem. It think it's because they are using the money to buy figs that get deleted. The Aliens should never remove any resources from their planet for any reason. Since they are out there making money 24/7, that should be their only source for obtaining figs. They should only be adding them to their planet and homeworld sector. Whatever extra cash they have after buying figs should go into the citadel. The limit that is placed on how much cash they can carry should make them buy figs to add to planet and home sector then deposit what is left over into the citadel instead of it just disappearing for whatever reason. If someone has taken their home world, they should build another one and build up its planet defenses and sector defenses as would a real player. To demonstrate what I'm saying here, bang a game, max the figs on the Alien home world, and put a couple hundred million in the citadel. By the end of the first week, you will find most of the planet figs have dissappeared along with a good chunk of the cash. After a month or so, there is almost no cash and figs left on the planet. This really hurts my games because I like to make a prize out the Aliens' home world by stocking the home planet with cash. I max the planet figs, but they dissappear making what cash survives in the citadel too easily obtained. What is the status on these problems. I have been waiting patiently for a long time to see fixes, but have not heard anything one way or another. Thanks [url="mailto:craig@franknputer.com"]craig@franknputer.com[/url] [url="telnet://franknputer.com"]telnet://franknputer.com[/url] http://franknputer.com |
|
| Author: | craig [ Mon May 27, 2002 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Oh, one more thing; I thought of an easy fix. I realize the problem is that Aliens are out there making money 24/7 and just build too fast for the pace of the game. Some of their assets need to be bled off. The fig deletion method could work and get them dialed in with the pace of the game with some minor changes. If Alien programming was changed so that they could not remove assets from their home planet and the deletion method was changed so that figs were no longer deleted from their home world sector, I think all would be well. [url="mailto:craig@franknputer.com"]craig@franknputer.com[/url] [url="telnet://franknputer.com"]telnet://franknputer.com[/url] http://franknputer.com |
|
| Author: | Rave [ Mon May 27, 2002 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This has already been fixed in revision .56 (to be released hopefully in the coming week). Aside from completely rewriting the Alien AI code from scratch, version .56 will feature the following changes in gold aliens: 1) They won't tolerate those planet camping players any more. If you're camped on a planet you'll be evicted when the alien lands. Previously, they only checked for players right after they reinvaded their homeworld. Now they check following every landing on -any- planet they control. 2) They'll no longer carry huge amounts of cash. They now follow a very specific formula for how much cash they'll be able to carry... a function based on the average cost (of fighters and shields) of destroying them. This should -really- slow down the ability of players to cash in on the gold aliens. 3) To further eliminate players cashing in on gold aliens, by using planet q-guns instead of fighters to whittle down gold alien ships before using a small wave of fighters to destroy them, they now behave -much- differently when there is an active ship or planet based interdictor generator in the sector they're in. They'll be calling for backup, and once they start arriving, it gets pretty ugly. 4) Aliens now strip mine planets they "acquire." They won't try to upgrade such planets, but they'll strip them of everything they have and reinforce their homeworld's colonists and products with whatever they can pull off the "acquired" planet. I'll be testing the .56 NONPSERV for a couple days prior to the release of .56 (hoping to find any bugs -before- the release rather than after) so hopefully when .56 is released, there won't be very many, if any, issues left in regards to the gold aliens. Though if you can think of any other gold alien behaviors that you feel need to be addressed, please feel free to post them here so we can take a look at them and figure out how much effort they'd require. With TW headed towards a final release I wouldn't expect any really complicated changes to be made, but if we can touch up their behaviors here and there... Lisa M. Wilson aka Rave EIS Product Support |
|
| Author: | Rave [ Mon May 27, 2002 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
::sigh:: I guess I should read posts in their entirity before replying. quote: I've had several problems with the Aliens for a really long time and I was wondering if and when they are going to be fixed. I made a fuss about the problems last year and was told the Aliens are "work in progress", but have not yet heard anything one way or the other. They're still a work in progress... hopefully though, the next couple revisions will see some progress in that work. quote: The initial problems were that the Aliens would acquire massive fig counts in their Alien sectors and massive amounts of cash in their citadel. They did not pay any attention to the figs per sector rules and sometimes carried unusually large amounts of cash that could be salvaged when captured or destroyed by a real player. Both were serious problems that allowed game balance to be skewed way out of wack. Even in .54 where aliens have 95-105k on them from day one the game becomes seriously unbalanced. quote: The latest problems started when code was added to keep the fighter counts from going over 50k per Alien sector by deleting any additional fighters over that amount when extern runs. That was a brain damaged way to handle the problem because Aliens will buy figs and/or move figs off of their planet then dump them into their sectors only to get deleted when extern runs. This results in massive losses for the Aliens and makes their home sector too weak and their planet too easily taken. This method needs to be backed out and instead, the Aliens need to observe the figs/sector rule in the same fashion as real players so that they can run up their figs in their home sector and protect their planet. I'll discuss this with JP. I'm not sure what can be done here though. The aliens, cashing 24/7 can easily overwhelm a game if they're allowed to purchase and deploy as many fighters as they can afford. They'd be extremely difficult to invade in stock, lower turn games and only be moderately difficult in higher turn games with heavy edits. quote: The other thing is that money in their citadel also dissapears for seemingly no reason. This problem appears to have happened around the same time as the fig dissapearing problem. It think it's because they are using the money to buy figs that get deleted. Unlike players, aliens can purchase fighters and shields from their planet. This is often where cash would "disappear" to. However, they do have a limit of some type as to how much cash they should have onhand. In general, the alien race's ability to defend itself depends on the age of the game, as it should, in my opinion. quote: The limit that is placed on how much cash they can carry should make them buy figs to add to planet and home sector then deposit what is left over into the citadel instead of it just disappearing for whatever reason. If someone has taken their home world, they should build another one and build up its planet defenses and sector defenses as would a real player. Currently aliens will trade until they reach their "cap" on their cash onhand, at which point they'll just kind of wander aimlessly until they're called back to their homeworld. Once summoned home, they'll invest that cash in fighters/shields to reinforce the homeworld's defenses, then return to trading/robbing normally. quote: To demonstrate what I'm saying here, bang a game, max the figs on the Alien home world, and put a couple hundred million in the citadel. By the end of the first week, you will find most of the planet figs have dissappeared along with a good chunk of the cash. After a month or so, there is almost no cash and figs left on the planet. This really hurts my games because I like to make a prize out the Aliens' home world by stocking the home planet with cash. I max the planet figs, but they dissappear making what cash survives in the citadel too easily obtained. You may want to just build a non-gold alien planet, at whatever Level citadel you'd like, then max out the planet with figs, ore, etc., and put your cash in its citadel. The formula gold aliens use to advance in power is most likely not going to change. It -can- be exploited by the gameop using the spawning profiles, but the base formula will remain the same. quote: What is the status on these problems. I have been waiting patiently for a long time to see fixes, but have not heard anything one way or another. There really aren't any fixes here as far as I can see... there's no bugs. The gold aliens are performing as they were meant to... not being too powerful for low-turn stock games. That of course makes them easier the more turns and more edits a gameop throws into the game. Still, since we're trying to address as many sysop concerns before the final release of Trade Wars, this is definitely something I'll run past JP to see what he thinks of it, and post some information here as soon as I get some. Lisa M. Wilson aka Rave EIS Product Support |
|
| Author: | the reverend [ Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
quote: 3) To further eliminate players cashing in on gold aliens, by using planet q-guns instead of fighters to whittle down gold alien ships before using a small wave of fighters to destroy them, they now behave -much- differently when there is an active ship or planet based interdictor generator in the sector they're in. They'll be calling for backup, and once they start arriving, it gets pretty ugly. wont this be an un-necessary pain in the arse for any team that just leaves their planet idg on overnight as a standard defense? it would be quite a surprise to wake up in the morning with nothing due to a massive alien invasion - all because one alien stumbled upon your idg. regards, the reverend icq 83250263 the.reverend@coastgames.com http://thereverend.coastgames.com/tradewars/ |
|
| Author: | koala [ Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
This may be addressed in the new alien AI coming out, but I'll ask anyway. Will future revisions allow an alien race to "expand"? I want a Borg race I create to slowly build outward, one or a few sector(s) at a time, trying eventually to dominate/colonize the galaxy. Such behaviors can make a game be players vs aliens. Run away! Run away! (Monty Python) |
|
| Author: | craig [ Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
quote: The formula gold aliens use to advance in power is most likely not going to change. It -can- be exploited by the gameop using the spawning profiles, but the base formula will remain the same. I appreciate the effort you put into your response, but you skirted the points of my conerns even with all that verbage. I don't have any problem with the formula that the aliens use to advance. The crux of the problem is that if I put 3 million figs on their planet, I don't want the aliens moving them to the sector only to get wacked at extern. If I stock their citadel with cash, I don't want them depleting the cash. Regardless of what they start with, they should always *add* to the sector figs, always *add* to the planet figs, and always *add* to the citadel cash. NOT SUBTRACT! Wacking the sector figs down to 50k at extern in the aliens' home planet sector is BAD! That's fine (and probably necessary) to do that in the sectors where the aliens have no home planet, but not where their planet lives. quote: There really aren't any fixes here as far as I can see... there's no bugs. The gold aliens are performing as they were meant to... not being too powerful for low-turn stock games. That of course makes them easier the more turns and more edits a gameop throws into the game. Huh??? After that long winded email I posted explaining the problems I'm having with the aliens, you're saying there's nothing that needs to be fixed? I don't understand how you can say that. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|