I'd like to ask fellow Sys-Ops their opinion on turn based games. I'm running a classic game with unlim turns for new players, no gold features on this one. I run a few other games that were unlimited turns and 20k sectors, 4 or 5 races in them. What is a good turn based number sysops have found to make a good game?

Thanks for insight.

Ask for my opinion and you will recieve it [;)]

I think players can deside the size and turn base or time based game
they like .. that said .. I like low turn but not to the extreem of 800 turns but more like 1,500 to 5k turns.
A 30k turn game may almost seem like unlimited , with a bottum.
So be careful if you use the new twgs feature of turn banking.

You might also throw in a 10k sector game for variety.

Hope this has been helpful [;)]

Personally, I am a fan of time-based games. Especially if you change the turn-to-time ratio to at least .75sec/Turn

This has the effect of making all the standard ship designs having various uses, rather than the player just finding that ONE ship that has the best turn to hold ratio (Like the ISS or CorpFl or something)

In addition, real-time combat encounters are a lot more exciting, and unpredictable when using a time-based game since there will be a variance in the ship usage since inter-sector warps vary between ships.

Although, I also agree that if you have a player base that prefers one or the other definately go with that. Your game isn't much of one when there are less players.

i agree with Solington. I like Time base game too,,, i dont see too many around,

This has been touched on in different threads, but I'll hit it here also. I believe what Solington is referring too is move delay. The reason it is not popular today is because 99% of players can't play it. In a move delay game, any gridder today gets ptorped on day 2, and never moves again. Since Bwarp and Pwarp are 0 delay, and an ISS has 4tpw * the move delay, well, I beam adj, torp you. You are still waiting to move. Nothing u can do, you are plain screwed. Now there are some good two ship grid methods, but to be honest, not many people are good at doing it (hence the 99%). I'd be happy to play a move-delay game with people, but it wouldn't be very fun for them.

Jhereg

Exactly why I disable Ptorps in time-based games. [;)]

I think you might be getting the terms confused, Solington. Ship delay and time limit are 2 separate settings. Time limit, obviously, limits the amount of time a player can spend in game. Ship delay adds a small (or not) time delay whenever a ship moves, based on its tpw. Low tpw ships can move relatively quickly, while high tpw ships take a long time to move from sector to sector. The problem with ship delay is that you basically have no possible way of avoiding a photon, you are just moving too slow. Like Jhereg said, 2 ship gridding can help if you do it right, but its much more time and turn intensive. So I don't really understand how turning photons off would have any bearing on a time limit game, except for the same limitations it places on ANY game. Disabling photons makes it MUCH harder to invade in a game where the odds already favor the defence.

quote:I'd be happy to play a move-delay game with people, but it wouldn't be very fun for them.
tisk, tisk Jhereg. Leave being arrogant for those that "think" their good, doesn’t suite you.

Zoso

Thanks for the posts. It does help. I just want to have a variety, and some players want me to set some games with so many turns per day. Since I've always run unlim per day, I was looking for a good number. I had one game at 50k, and another at 10k. 10k seemed to be the highest I'd want to go.

Thanks all.

Man, you can sure tell when the scripters arrive. You guys never touched on the real reasons some people like turn based games.

In a turn based game I think that ship delay should always be on. There is a reason for it. The bigger the ship, the slower it is. That's reflected in how fast it can move. No way should an ISS be able to keep up with a Scout. You guys that run scripts for everything like this set to 0 because it makes your scripts sing, the only problem is, you lose all balance between the different types of ships because of it. That makes manual play kind of stupid because an IC can keep up with a Corp Flagship. I just came back to the game and set up my own TWGS. One of the things that disappoints me the most about the new and improved Twar Server is the fact that ship delay is a global command. If I want a game without ship delays, all ten of my games are affected.

Also, Some people don't like setting online for 24 hours at a time trying to script a bazillion bucks because they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING else to do with their lives. A turn based game allows them to come in, spend an hour running their turns, then get back to their lives.

There is also the issue of turn management. When this game was in it's infancy before all these out of control "updates" and "mods" what you did with each turn was important. You needed to maximize your effort to make the most gains you could within a defined set of turns. People actually broke it down and figured out just how many credits they were making per turn. Finding the most efficient use of your turns usually determined who ruled in a game. Most of the scripters today have never even experienced a game like that.

Also, in a turn based game, I don't like the P-torp. If I remember correctly, the original door versions didn't even have this weapon, now I may be wrong and my memory fails me as when I first saw the P-Torp but I've always disliked it and never thought it added anything to this game.

Now. I don't hate scripts. I think they are grand for things like Port Pair trading, or SST, things that are repetitive in nature, but turning on "world Trade" and letting it run for half a day while your mowing the lawn is just assinine. I have a couple unlimited games on my server and you'll most likely never see me seriously playing one... I keep them up just for the kiddies.......

quote:Originally posted by Maj_SilverEagle

Man, you can sure tell when the script-babies arrive.

It's script kiddies. get it right. [:D]

quote:
In a turn based game I think that ship delay should always be on. There is a reason for it. The bigger the ship, the slower it is. That's reflected in how fast it can move. No way should an ISS be able to keep up with a Scout. You guys that run scripts for everything like this set to 0 because it makes your scripts sing, the only problem is, you lose all balance between the different types of ships because of it. That makes manual play kind of stupid because an IC can keep up with a Corp Flagship.

That's all well and good, but the problem is that L4 and above Planets move with no delay regardless of the ship delay settings. Once an enemy gets a mobile planet, moving over thier figs becomes suicide. This is why most games have move delay turned off. It really has little to do with the imbalance between ships.
quote:
I just came back to the game and set up my own TWGS. One of the things that disappoints me the most about the new and improved Twar Server is the fact that ship delay is a global command. If I want a game without ship delays, all ten of my games are affected.

Everyone agrees with you there. Ship delay should be game specific. But it's way more work to fix this than JP wants to put into it.
quote:
Also, Some people don't like setting online for 24 hours at a time trying to script a bazillion bucks because they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING else to do with their lives. A turn based game allows them to come in, spend an hour running their turns, then get back to their lives.

Heh. Even turn based games have people online 24/7. It's only in time limited games were you find people with lives. [:D]
quote:
You needed to maximize your effort to make the most gains you could within a defined set of turns. People actually broke it down and figured out just how many credits they were making per turn.

about 13,000 credits per turn SST
about 15,500 credits per turn SDT solo
about 17,000 credits per turn Team SDT
about 34,000 credits per turn Megga-Robbing
(assuming you are using very good ports.)
[:D]
quote:
Also, in a turn based game, I don't like the P-torp. If I remember correctly, the original door versions didn't even have this weapon, now I may be wrong and my memory fails me as when I first saw the P-Torp but I've always disliked it and never thought it added anything to this game.

There were no planet shields either. If you go far back enough, there weren't a lot of things we take for granted today. The game evolves. The players adapt.
In the few modern games I've played in without photons, I have found that turning them off makes the game even more aggressive. In games with no photons, you can't afford to let any enemy cits get to L3. There was just as much ship to ship combat, but it usually involved getting ahead of someone while they were gridding and putting an Interdicter Cruiser in their path. Shrug. Same number of peeps #SD#, just different methods of doing it. The good players will adapt to the settings and dominate, no matter what you make them.

Bite tongue, bit tongue.

Ok I’m a script kiddy, so me and my script kiddy friends will challenge you to game so that we can show you what turn efficacy really is. What do you say 1k turns 5k verse stock edits ½ time cits? It will have to be on a neutral server though. You can even turn on move delay just so we can prove to you just how gay it is.

Why is it you can’t seem to post with out insulting someone almost every time?

Planetary transporter also is not affected by ship delays.

quote:Originally posted by Psion

I think you might be getting the terms confused, Solington. Ship delay and time limit are 2 separate settings.
I understand these terms fine. Maybe not the verbage, but hey... I just learned something. [:)]

quote:Originally posted by Psion

Time limit, obviously, limits the amount of time a player can spend in game. Ship delay adds a small (or not) time delay whenever a ship moves, based on its tpw.
Alrighty. [|)] To clarify my previous statement then, my favorite games use .75sec/Turn ship delay in unlimited time/turn games.

quote:Originally posted by Psion

Low tpw ships can move relatively quickly, while high tpw ships take a long time to move from sector to sector.
This is what makes the ship variance so cool. Scouts go faster than ISSes or Merch Freighters go faster than TMules... etc. The trading dynamics as well as ship-to-ship combat dynamics are really fun IMO when ship delay is introduced.

quote:Originally posted by Psion

The problem with ship delay is that you basically have no possible way of avoiding a photon, you are just moving too slow.
This is why I disable Ptorps in these style games. Having no possibe way of avoiding an attack of this magnitude is not a good balance.

quote:Originally posted by Psion

Like Jhereg said, 2 ship gridding can help if you do it right, but its much more time and turn intensive.
Okey Doke.

quote:Originally posted by Psion

So I don't really understand how turning photons off would have any bearing on a time limit game, except for the same limitations it places on ANY game. Disabling photons makes it MUCH harder to invade in a game where the odds already favor the defence.

In my experience, the difficutly of invasion makes it more rewarding. Stacked defensive odds can still be overcome if you use better/more teamwork, superior reconaissance, better use of ships & planets (Since ship delay is a factor) and better economic desicions/investments.

Suggestion for low turn game: 1.5K turns/10K sectors/high port density/6 hour time limit/MBBS (Gold or otherwise/5 per corp/no starting products on planets (or some fuel and nothing else/faster citadel develop time/active Ferrengal. Just my 2 cents input.