quote:Originally posted by Kemper_3

quote:Originally posted by NLucier

Ok....maybe I wasn't being clear enough as to the kind of warning. Not a warning when you put the planet there, but a warning before it's actually squashed, say, 5 minutes before extern runs. If you are online (and most likely actively using the planet), then you get the warning and move it. If you are not online, then poof...a Level 2 space rock that takes up room there.

I understand the reason for squashing the planet, just not the way it happens. Let's say that the sysop of the game doesn't tell you when extern runs. Is there a way to find out what the setting is? Could probably put a fig in a space lane and wait to see what time it gets destroyed (assuming it was destroyed by Feds), but that is something that you shouldn't have to do. It should be on the "V" screen in game, and also on the "S" and "*" screens at the menu.

Nate

I agree, I think it should list it somewhere. However, it's unlikely that it will be. That said, by the time you have a lvl 4 planet, you should know when extern runs, it's not like it's a different time every day. When you first join a server check the previous day's logs (with timestamping) to see when extern runs. It's at that time that it runs every night in all games (it may vary by a few seconds). I have never played on a server where the extern time changed frequently at all.


For those that do not know it. TWGS does have an option to show when extern is scheduled to run. But, it does not work. Atleast I have not seen where it displays when extern is run. And I have looked at the default Logon Menu, Game Menu, S option, * option, and V command in the game. When it is set.

Hey, JP/Lisa, this needs to be fixed or removed.

quote:Originally posted by The WABBIT

quote:Originally posted by Kemper_3

quote:Originally posted by NLucier

Ok....maybe I wasn't being clear enough as to the kind of warning. Not a warning when you put the planet there, but a warning before it's actually squashed, say, 5 minutes before extern runs. If you are online (and most likely actively using the planet), then you get the warning and move it. If you are not online, then poof...a Level 2 space rock that takes up room there.

I understand the reason for squashing the planet, just not the way it happens. Let's say that the sysop of the game doesn't tell you when extern runs. Is there a way to find out what the setting is? Could probably put a fig in a space lane and wait to see what time it gets destroyed (assuming it was destroyed by Feds), but that is something that you shouldn't have to do. It should be on the "V" screen in game, and also on the "S" and "*" screens at the menu.

Nate

I agree, I think it should list it somewhere. However, it's unlikely that it will be. That said, by the time you have a lvl 4 planet, you should know when extern runs, it's not like it's a different time every day. When you first join a server check the previous day's logs (with timestamping) to see when extern runs. It's at that time that it runs every night in all games (it may vary by a few seconds). I have never played on a server where the extern time changed frequently at all.


For those that do not know it. TWGS does have an option to show when extern is scheduled to run. But, it does not work. Atleast I have not seen where it displays when extern is run. And I have looked at the default Logon Menu, Game Menu, S option, * option, and V command in the game. When it is set.

Hey, JP/Lisa, this needs to be fixed or removed.


It is set in the TWGS Confiure/server settings but not displayed unless SysOp/GameOp writes it into Announcement file that J.P. previded for such things.
As a fellow SysOp/GameOp I use the file to make mention of that and any other messages like game goals and of course "NO DUPPING !!"
Then just run game and players can read it if they stop to notice it [:)]

[url="http://geocities.com/videotees/twars.html"]Vid's World on Guam[/url]
telnet://vidsworld.no-ip.org:2002
[url="http://geocities.com/videotees/hintstips.html"]Vid's Hints and Tips[/url]
[url="http://geocities.com/videotees/hintstips.html"]Home of the Sector Hunter for Swath[/url]

quote:Also do not tell me that you don't know where the MSL are. As you can easily find out what sectors are the MSL. And that also includes FED Space, SD, and both Class 0 ports.


Actually, in the almost 10 years of playing the game (believe first version I played was 1.03d), I have never found a "realiable" way to know what the MSL sectors are. How do I go about doing that?

quote:What it comes down to, is that you want things easy for you to play. If you can't handle playing the game as is, then don't play it.

And "old school players" wonder why newbies don't stick around playing the game long.... I don't remember seeing anywhere in my posting about you want things easy for you to play. Can you please point it out to me? Being "easy to play" and being informed of something in the game are two drastically different things.

Why do you need to be informed of a player/alien entering a sector with a fig in it? I think you shouldn't be informed of that until that alien/player actually does something to the fig (pay toll, attacks...whatever).


As far as the extern thing goes, why is it even configurable? Make the Darn thing run at local midnight when all the REST of the cleanup stuff is done. You get #Ship Destroyed#, you cannot re-enter until local midnight, not at extern (at least that's what I've had happen in the few games I've gotten #SD#....I play in games made for exploration mostly, not carnage...Quake works better for that crap).


Anyways, looks like the "discussion" on the topic has turned into a lot of "you should" "you had to" "don't tell me" crap and probably ought to be ended since nothing really intelligent (possibly including this post) has been put forward for a while.

quote:
Actually, in the almost 10 years of playing the game (believe first version I played was 1.03d), I have never found a "realiable" way to know what the MSL sectors are. How do I go about doing that?

In order to know the MSL's you have to know where Alpha Centauri and Rylos are. Once you have found both Class-0's, it's easy to find the MSL's. Clear any avoids and use computer to get path from Terra to SD, SD to Terra, SD to each Class-0 and back, Alpha Centauri to Rylos and Rylos back to Alpha Centauri. Those are all the MSL's.

1) Know what time extern runs. If it's the first day of the game this could be a problem if the sysop doesn't have the time posted, but unless the game is heavily edited you don't have to worry about planets in MSLs on the first day anyways.

2) If you know what time extern runs, don't park your planets at the Class 0's or the MSLs. Play it safe and wait until after extern or do your planet moving well ahead of extern.

There's really no need for a warning. It'd be like putting beacons in sectors surrounding 1-10 warning players they're now in open space. Or sending red players a message when entering StarDock's sector reminding them they can be attacked.

As for sector fighters it would make no sense to send a message only when a player takes an action. The purpose of sector fighters is sector control. They're your eyes and ears. Ships aren't equipped with "stealth" so if you enter a sector with an enemy fighter(s) why would they not report you entering their space?

quote:Originally posted by The WABBIT

quote:Originally posted by NLucier

No where else in the forums seems to be the right place for this with the exception of the "GameOps Forum" for registered TWGS Ops (I am one, but there is no traffic there and would like general discussion)


Why is there no warning that a planet is going to suddenly get degraded while you are playing? Received the following for the second time in a particular game while actively using the particular planet/sector:

The Federation We destroyed the Quasar Cannon on 3 in sector XXXX.
DO NOT deploy offensive planets on the Major Space Lanes!

You'd think that a game meant for 24-hour playing would be able to be played for "twenty-four-hours" without getting weeks worth of hard work squashed because you happened to put a planet somewhere "while you were currently playing and not logged off" and the extern program runs.


Nate



quote:Originally posted by craig

I believe the game should tell you whenever you place something in a Major Space Lane that could get wiped out extern. The MSL's are not something that is very obvious in the game.



For both of you. Since the game is still really a door game, but with a telnet connectivity addited to it. It is still Trade Wars 2002 v3.xx.xx with a telnet server(TWGS). The game has been adapted to work with the TWGS for connectivity only. TWGS has been made to run the Trade Wars 2002 v3.xx.xx game program(TW2002) and utilities(Big Bang, Tedit and Extern). The game (TW2002) is a completely seperate program from the utilities (Big Bang, Tedit and Extern). Since they are completely seperate programs. They are run independantly of each other. As such there is no way for the game (TW2002) to know when Extern is going to run. Hence there is no way for the game to warn you that you are about to lose your [b]sorry[b] assets that happens to be in a MSL. Atleast not without a complete rewrite of the game code. And JP has already stated that there is going to no more writing of code for v3.xx.xx of Trade Wars 2002 w/TWGS. Except to remove current major, major bugs.

Even if there is a way for the game to know when extern is going to run. And that there is a way for JP to add in code so that the game can warn you.

I think it would be stupid for JP to do so. If you are stupid enough to place some valuable piece of asset in a major space lane. And leave it there for any length of time, to include when extern is run. Then you deserve to lose that asset, or to have it downgraded. Because if the game didn't take it away from you, or downgraded it. I, or others, will take it away from you, or destroy it.

And do not tell me that you can not easily find out when extern is run. It shows up in the daily logs, in various of ways. If the game has a time limit, you time is reset at extern. There are various other ways to find out when extern is run.

Also do not tell me that you don't know where the MSL are. As you can easily find out what sectors are the MSL. And that also includes FED Space, SD, and both Class 0 ports.

What it comes down to, is that you want things easy for you to play. If you can't handle playing the game as is, then don't play it.

If v4 becomes reality, maybe it will be easier for you to play and win.



You seem to be over reacting a bit here... I read the original post to mean he was unhappy because he did not know about certain aspects of Tradewars. I thought it was a valid point, although I don't have any idea of a solution at this time. There is no one playing the game today who can claim with 100% confidence that they know everything there is to know about Tradewars, and that is why people continue to play it hours on end. You have to remember that there is (in my opinion) a steep learning curve required to play this game successfully. Don't give the guy so much grief just because he is uncertain of how to find the MSL's, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have no clue how to figure them out. It's not like there is an instuction book that every new player to the game can sit down and read thouroughly before they play. The only way you get better is with expierence, and learning from your mistakes. It takes months and years to learn the subtleties of this game.

As an example, reread your post pretending like you've only been playing tradewars a month. You're gonna go wtf... it's really quite a humorous post when read in that light.

Well for those uninformed individuals. The best way to find the MSL's when you do not know the locations of Star Dock, Alpha Centauri, Rylos. is a technic I had learned back in the days of the Door v1.xx. This technic was mainly used to find Star Dock when Star Dock's location was not shown in the 'V' screen. But, guess what it will show to you the MSL from sector 1 to SD. And you can use it to find the Class 0 ports too. Along with the MSL's between SD and them.

This is how it goes.

1) Place a fig in every sector around Fed. Space.
2) Wait until extern is run. Check you messages to see the message you received from the fed's about removing your fighter from a MSL. TAKE NOTE OF THIS SECTOR, IT IS A MSL SECTOR!
3) Place a fig in each of the surrounding sectors, to the one the fed's cleared.
4) Wait until extern is run. Check your messages to see the message from the feds. NOTE THIS SECTOR, IT IS A MSL SECTOR!
5) Repeat from step 3 until you have reached SD.
6) Once you know were SD is. All you have to do is do a course plot back to sector 1. Then you have the return MSL to sector 1.

Every sector that had been cleared by the feds is a sector in the MSL from sector 1 to SD.

To find the Class 0 ports and the MSL's to them from SD. All you have to do is the same, as above, but starting from around SD. Going away from SD but not to sector 1.

That is all there is to it. And yes this does take a long time and it wastes alot of figs. But, it was the only way to find SD before ZTM'ing became known. Even then ZTM'ing was not always with out errors. Even now it is still your best shot. Until you are able to get a ZTM that had gotten a 100% of all the sectors and warps correct.

But, if you know the locations of SD and the Class 0 ports. Then all you have to do is plot a course from sector 1 to SD, SD to sector 1, SD to AC, AC to SD, SD to R, R to SD. Once you have done that, then you will know every sector in all MSL's. Provided you wrote them down.

Is any of this that hard to do, or learn? I think not.

If I remember correctly. This technic was outline in 1 of the major TW guides out there. It was either in the Slice10 or The Original Gypsie's War Manual. I'm pretty sure it was outlined in Gypsie's War Manual, though I am not really sure about that.

quote:Originally posted by NLucier

Actually, in the almost 10 years of playing the game (believe first version I played was 1.03d), I have never found a "realiable" way to know what the MSL sectors are. How do I go about doing that?



see previous posting. This techniqe has been around since v1.xx. Besides, how hard is it to read your messages. And take note of the sectors that the fed's had removed your fig, and/or planet, from. Since they will only do so in a MSL sector or Fed Space.


quote:

And "old school players" wonder why newbies don't stick around playing the game long.... I don't remember seeing anywhere in my posting about you want things easy for you to play. Can you please point it out to me? Being "easy to play" and being informed of something in the game are two drastically different things.



First of all, you want to change a feature of the game that has been around since v1.xx. It was tough then and it has stayed tough all the way until now. Changing it would just make it easier to you, and/or to all those others that can not handle it.


quote:

As far as the extern thing goes, why is it even configurable? Make the Darn thing run at local midnight when all the REST of the cleanup stuff is done. You get #Ship Destroyed#, you cannot re-enter until local midnight, not at extern (at least that's what I've had happen in the few games I've gotten #SD#....I play in games made for exploration mostly, not carnage...Quake works better for that crap).



Again this is a left over from the original Trade Wars 2002 v1.xx, v2.xx and v3.xx. Extern what does all the maintenance for the game. In the day of the BBS. The BBS would run a batch file to do maintenance on the various of DOOR games. This was set in the BBS software when to run. Since the game was never completely rewritten. The game still needs to have EXTERN run at what ever time the SYSOP/GAME-OP wants it to run at. Only without the BBS running a batch file. The TWGS portion of the game is there to help you run the game in a Windows enviroment and to be the telnet connection between the player(s) and the game. As such you have to configure the TWGS to run EXTERN at what ever time the SYSOP/GAME-OP wants it to run at.

EXTERN must be run to do the various of clean-up the game needs. Restocking fo the ports, removing of figs/planets from MSL's, etc. And this will not change in the current version.

As for the being able to re-enter a game at 12am Server time after being #SD#. I have never had that happen. In every game I have every played in, since v2.xx. I have never been able to re-enter a game at 12am server time after being #SD#. The game has never allowed me back in until exactly 24hrs after being #SD#. It does not matter if EXTERN has run or not. And it does not mattern what time it is when I was #SD#.

(BTW Lisa, I am still awaiting on a answer to my last question to you on ICQ. I need to know if my memory, on that issue, has completely left me or not.)

quote:
As for the being able to re-enter a game at 12am Server time after being #SD#. I have never had that happen. In every game I have every played in, since v2.xx. I have never been able to re-enter a game at 12am server time after being #SD#. The game has never allowed me back in until exactly 24hrs after being #SD#. It does not matter if EXTERN has run or not. And it does not mattern what time it is when I was #SD#.

You can re-enter the game at midnight, regardless of what time EXTERN runs. If you CBY at 11:59 pm server time (thereby being #SD#) you can reenter the game at 12:01 am. You will have no turns, as the turns have to regenerate from 0 after you're #SD# but you'll be back in the game.

quote:
(BTW Lisa, I am still awaiting on a answer to my last question to you on ICQ. I need to know if my memory, on that issue, has completely left me or not.)


Uh oh. Lemme go look through my ICQ history and see what question you're referring to. LoL.

quote:Originally posted by The WABBIT

EXTERN must be run to do the various of clean-up the game needs. Restocking fo the ports, removing of figs/planets from MSL's, etc. And this will not change in the current version.



Ports regen product independent of extern. Extern is used to advance port construction and clear radiation, if that's what you're referring to.

Hey Kemper3,

For those of us who have never played a game on a server where extern didn't run at midnight server time... how does that work. You can get back in the game at midnight, but you don't get any pods back, correct? So if you're killed between midnight and the time extern runs, you're out for another day, correct?

Or is it you get one pod back and midnight and one back at extern. I guess I could test this on my server but I'm lazy.

quote:Originally posted by Rave

Hey Kemper3,

For those of us who have never played a game on a server where extern didn't run at midnight server time... how does that work. You can get back in the game at midnight, but you don't get any pods back, correct? So if you're killed between midnight and the time extern runs, you're out for another day, correct?

Or is it you get one pod back and midnight and one back at extern. I guess I could test this on my server but I'm lazy.


Rave ;
you get one life at midnight ..and 2 lives back after extern , so if you get klled before extern after returning into game at midnight .. yup your out again for 23 hrs ..
This is where your corpies can help you out with getting you a ship and clearing path for you. That way you come on after extern instead of at midnight.

Vid Kid

quote:Originally posted by Rave

Hey Kemper3,

For those of us who have never played a game on a server where extern didn't run at midnight server time... how does that work. You can get back in the game at midnight, but you don't get any pods back, correct? So if you're killed between midnight and the time extern runs, you're out for another day, correct?

Or is it you get one pod back and midnight and one back at extern. I guess I could test this on my server but I'm lazy.


Actually, it's a little bit confusing how it works. When extern runs you get reset to being allowed 2 poddings. So if you get podded twice then go #SD#, when you come back at midnight you cannot get podded again until after extern runs. However, if you get podded once and then go #SD# without a second podding (like a killed ship, killed pod), when you come back at midnight you have 1 podding left before extern runs.

Midnight allows you no extra poddings. It only allows you to come back from being #SD#. If you get podded twice you get no more poddings allowed until after extern.

There's an inconsistency in the game regarding this issue. The game will tell you if you are parking in FedSpace and violating the max players per FedSpace rule, but won't tell you if you are leaving something in a MSL or FedSpace parking in violation of the limited armaments rule. Where's the logic there? Either warn players about all the Fed rules or don't.

Ehh? I am really curious what you think a "bug" is and wtf it has to do with any "features" under any so called Micro$..t rules? "Oh well" is a serious lack of response. It seems many folks here have tried to give honest answers. Giving warnings that "You have parked a planet in an illegal sector and it will suffer serious meltdown" is a feature I hope to NEVER see in this game!

quote:Originally posted by NLucier

Maybe not a "bug" on the "official bug list", but it sure as heck fits the description of a "feature" under Microsoft rules.

Anyways....just as curious about what a discussion on it would reveal, and I got my answer: no real discussion, pretty much like the rest of the forums.

Oh well, I tried.

Nate