That is exactly my point. To me Tradewars should be, and on my Server will be -somehow- more than  a matter of scripting and gridding.  Might be a scripters paradies, but for the rest of us it is becoming  soulless and more than a bit boring.
I want to create and host games that are fun to play, that will last weeks or even months and where even a latecoming solo- or smallcorp-player that enters the Game after its been running for weeks still has a chance to win it in the end.
That in fact is the TW that I love.
People are different, games should be to. Wonder if you grid-script-24/7 guys would be able to compete there? Well see. I will experiment some with my Gold-package and then we'll see.

A script or macro will beat a typist everytime. The script/macro doesn't mistype commands and reacts far faster.

I know of no competitive games where a solo or corp can come into a game weeks late and compete. A turns game where a corp of 4 people has been running 1k turns should have a lead that would be impossible to overcome based solely on the moves they have made vs the starting corp.

ISS/CFS/IDC vs a merchant isn't much of a match.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Scripting is part of the game. I remember PPTing and colonizing by hand on a BBS. You want to go back to that?

Well, you have to be able to support the grid... if you can't do that there's no point in having it really. That takes some resources, but suprisingly little really provided your corp plays it's turns.

Everyone of the old players goes thru 1 of 2 stages. "I'll be a scripter!" or "Scripters are evil!"

Anyway, all this doesn't matter. Truth is there are very few games like yours anymore, and all it takes is one eager scripter to break it all. The game doesn't become soulless, it just means you have to learn how to play with and around different concepts. Don't like someone ptorping you? Learn what beats it.

Would we be able to compete? Sure, game would last about a week. It would not last months and months or years, and nobody here wants a game to last that long since that gets BORING to the extreme. Most people that play slow games want to think that scripting play is somehow inferior, it's not... it's superior in almost every way, fewer mistakes, faster reflex time, quicker kills, quicker deaths. It's just much more tactical, which isn't something everyone enjoys.

I agree w/ Prome 100%, you can't get in a week late and expect to compete against people that actually want to keep you out. You're not looking to get rid of scripts here, you're just looking to get rid of aggressive players entirely. Most of the players here are out to win. Script or no. Expect them to go for the throat. You colonize unfedsafe? You'll die. You walk around not scanning? Expect to die. Scripts or no, whatever wins the game the quickest is what we do.

Truth is you can do some pretty funky things with an edit, but any smart competitor can script around it. Then suddenly that scripter has an advantage that no one else has. If the other corps have a good scripter, then their side will advance too... if not, then the game is over. Played in a lot of games where 1 or 2 small script advances spell the end to a game. This is why funky anti-script edits have exactly the opposite effect, 1 smart competitor usually takes home the win instead of a more equal, longer-term battle.

The answer to grid isn't less grid, it's more grid. The answer to scripts isn't less scripting, it's more scripting. The answer to slow play isn't slower play, it's faster play. Bottle -> Genie, poof... gone.

Slim Shady Analogy Time!!!
It's been a while, but I feel this warrents one.

You're like the old catholic church, you see something you don't understand, and you see others paying attention to it, so you name it a heratic and attempt to outlaw it and burn it at the stake.

Are scripts the downfall of twars? Honestly, ya, but there is nothing to be done about it, thats just the way the game is. Thats why JP is attempting to make a new version of the game to eliminate scripting and bring skill back into the equation. You might say "oh Slim, you're just a script killing newb"
Nay, of all the kills I've gotten, 99% were from macros. I used macros for almost all combat, invasion, attack, etc..
I would prefer getting into a fight with someone useing a script, because i'll know how they'll react 100% of the time. If I run accross someone not scripting, I have no idea how they'll react (well, actually, I do, which is why most of the time they'd end up dead and me not, heh, but thats just me)

This game is 100% coded in math. You can modify some of the variables, but the equations remain the same, and until you understand that, you'll remain frustrated. There is nothing, nothing at all, that you can do to prevent one of your "24/7 grid scripters" from beating a person who doesn't understand why gridding is so important.

don't you mean "less than"? i mean - basically what you are saying is that the game, and the way it is currently being played, demands more than you can bring to the table. so what you want is a tradewars that is less demanding. scripting and gridding have added depth to the game, not lessened or cheapened it.

It is a typical matter of perspective. From my point
of view, gridding, extensive scripting and letting the bots play 24/7 removes or
at least diminishes the personal experience and fascination of the Game. >>

From your point of view, this is the satisfying part
of playing the Game.>>

Who’s right? Nobody I think. There is something for
everyone in this great game. There are a lot of servers hosting exactly the
type of game you like. So, wouldn’t it be a good thing to have some servers
that offer Games that go to the other side?>>





> >There is a analogy that comes to my mind. I would
never buy a car with an automatic gear, because it reduces the skill of
driving. Certainly for the engineers that invented the automatic gear it was a
great accomplishment and I am sure they were thrilled by the fact, that they
were able to do it. >>



> >But many players of TW are neither here nor there. Some
of them cant even read a script. They download them, use them and are quickly
done with the Game.>>

I can certainly understand, that some good scripters
find joy in writing and applying their own scripts and are overjoyed, when they
have overcome some difficulties through their scripts. But honestly, how many
of you do that?>>



> >It’s not getting thorped or podded that displeases me
in the game. That is the game. I just don’t like getting thorped by a script,
while the actual player is not even in the game.>>

And I don’t like it when a game is over before it begins.>>

So, I'll 
give it a try. Lets call it an Experiment. Maybe it will work, maybe not. So
what?>>

> >

Sorry
about the screwy  fonts and  emos. That wasn’t intended

you know... you *can* edit your posts...

back on topic, it seems we understand each other. i guess my twist on your automatic vs manual analogy would be that learning to script *adds* more controls to the car, or if you will, allows you to put your hands directly in the transmission.

yes, i play the game through my own scripts and nobody else's. of course, scripts are useless if you don't know how to play the game without them - i mean - no library of scripts can cover every situation you might encounter. you always have to do something by hand. when i was a top player, i could do just about any common task blind without scripts.

i agree with you that it is very frustrating to have to fight people's scripts when they are away from keys. personally, i rarely left scripts running when i was afk. eventually i wrote a bot, but it basically allowed other players to use my turns for buydowns or other common tasks without me being there 24/7. 9 times out of 10, an organized corp can turn any opponent to their advantage when they run combat scripts while afk.

good luck with your server.

This bugs me"

"A script or macro will beat a typist everytime. The script/macro doesn't mistype commands and reacts far faster.
I know of no competitive games where a solo or corp can come into a game weeks late and compete. A turns game where a corp of 4 people has been running 1k turns should have a lead that would be impossible to overcome based solely on the moves they have made vs the starting corp. "

This would mean that there is no reason to RUN servers open and you could compare scripts and call it a day. I got into the game long ago because there was room for strategy and luck to balance things out. The 4man team that had been in for a bit has an advantage but that a skilled strategic player with some luck could still get some game in. I will flip your argument- If running scripts gets you a win over typists and the better script always wins then why would I as a person set up a server in the first place? So that your computer can beat someoneelses using mine as the ref? Then why should I bother with mods at all?

Scripts dont win games.Stragegy and resourses do..most of the time.
Rehashing this old  topic is moot.
Its his server and he can set it up as he wishs.
That being said I would not expect a high turn out for a game in a constant state of tedit.Also if someone would explain how to ptrade or solo red cash or ppt or attack or defend my resources without a grid i would appreciate it as I would like to save my turns too.

since we're all tedit happy, get the sysop to remove all warps into your base. it would be safe then...

What has always surprised me is *how many* kills I've gotten with scripts. I mean. Come on people. Show some imagination. The fact that I can kill with a script, which can't react, can't change, can't adjust, can't learn, can't predict, and just sits there and does the same Darn thing over and over makes me sick.

TW is changed. I feel it in the grid. I see it in the bubbles. I smell it in the photon ozone.
Much that once was is lost, for none now play who remember it.
It began with the forging of the Great Scripts. Three were given to Pheonix Rising, immortal, wisest and fairest of all permas. Seven to Damage Unlimited, great scripters and craftsmen of the Stardock halls. And nine, nine scripts were gifted to the Space Tyrants, who, above all else, desire power.
But they were, all of them, deceived, for another script was made.
In The Cabal perma, in the fires of TWX Proxy, the Dark Lord Traitor forged in secret a master script, to control all others. And into this script he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life.

One script to rule them all.   

In a heads-up combat situation, the macro of recorded commands is faster than any human typist. The vast majority of scripts have a vulnerable area. Parrothead stated that it is not necessarily scripts that win a game, and he is correct. You have to know what to do and when to do it. The game still hinges on strategy and I will take luck over skill any day.

The game situation of coming in late against skilled competition is simply one of mathematics. The established corp has been utilizing their moves during the time to build, cash, and grid. A solo or corp that comes in 28k (1k x 4 x 7) moves behind should be in serious trouble. If they are not then the established corp is lax and most skilled corps are not.

A script's main strength, and downfall as Traitor I belive stated, is that it alway reacts the same way to a situation. Your strategy is to recognize the way it reacts and then respond with the corret tactics.

Based on the script vs script and who has the best script wins... if we have two typists and one types 80 wpm and the other at 30 wpm - who usually wins in combat? The only way for the 30 wpm typist to stand much of chance is to find a way to gain an advantage (usually a goal in war) to offset the other person's skill. Scripts or macros would even this fight out a bit as a single keystroke is all that is necessary. If scripts won games then I would never lose against someone playing with less developed scripts - this is not the case and has been proven, to my chagrin, many times over.

Players will never be equal regardless of their typing speed or script use because of the strategy that the game requires. Luck is always a good thing to have.

As to why you would want to run a server I really don't know. The sysOp/gameOps give a service for free and if they make a mistake or the free server they provide goes down at a bad time for someone they get flamed. I don't know why they do what they do, but I am glad that they are out there.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

**** please tell me you gave me that one.