ok i'm probably going to sound arrogant (it seems like everyone thinks i'm that way, oh well), but in reality, elite players are not defined by their scripts, nor their connection speed, nor whether the game is tilted toward red or blue play. it is far far far more difficult to find a good blue than to find a good red. I don't know too many people who are incapable of running an sdt script, a buydown script, a megarob script, or other script designed to facilitate red play. If a player is incapable of keeping track of busts, LRA, bust clear cycles, etc, then they are most definitely not going to be a good blue.

Many of the new players see blue as the 'newb' position; the position where u colonize, up planets, maybe do some buydowns so the red can megarob. While those are all jobs that blues can do, the real value of the blue player comes in his/her ability to be the manager of the data for the team. More often than not, it is the blue who probes, it is the blue who keeps track of port losses, sector view dates, etc. The top 10 players in the game have very little problem avoiding pdrop/photon/grid defense scripts, nor do they have problems staying safe in fed when they are non-fed safe. Believe it or not, scripts will never be as smart as a top player; they will be faster, not smarter. Generally speaking, if you get hit by today's offensive scripts, one of a three things happened.

A) you don't know how to clear effectively
B) you hit a bad patch of lag and got 'unlucky'
C) you were careless

For those people who find it difficult to 'blind clear' (ie clear as many figs as fast as they can, aborting display along the way), the problem is not the scripts killing you, its the fact that you're running around blind. Stop it. It does nothing against a team who has any discipline with managing data, and it is quite easy to kill the gridder for the most part. The major distinctions between the 'elite' and the 'non-elite' are the ability to interpret edits correctly, manage data, and stay alive on the grid while actually seeing what is around you.

I would say, in direct contradiction to wabbit, that most of the 'elite' players i know would PREFER to play blue, although they each make very fine reds.

quote:Originally posted by Tradewarrior55

SGO Said:
"I agree with you 100 percent. Yet, there really is no way to create a game that is advantaged to the Blue player in the area of Cash!"

I disagree, I beleive I can make a game Blues will outcash Red's.
1. turn off steal from buy port, High % on Steal and rob.
2. Only Ships with large hold capacity are commish.
<shrugs> I think that would do it?



it is quite easy to make a game where blues outcash reds - in fact, many of the edits coming out today are geared to be blue games. Any game where you have a lot of colonists available with reasonable planet production (3:1 equipment and/or figs or better) will favor the blue to outcash the reds. Also, fast mobile planets favor blues as well, as planet trading (even without megarobbing or rtr) will beat sdt for cashing.

Didaskalos covered most of what I was going to say on this topic. However, I'd like to point out, that saying "reds outcash blues" is a limited perspective on even a stock game. A red will outcash a blue only until there are lvl 4 planets. As didaskalos pointed out, planet trading beats sdt.

As to the original topic of this post, there are some things you can do to break most of the scripts out there. Disable photons (or at least only allow ships with no twarp and can't land to carry them). That will stop the most common method of killing mediocre players. Additionally, you could make extremely long warp paths in your game, which will require very large amounts of ore to warp a planet around. Combine this with somewhat low ore capacity on any fast planet and you'll end up with a lot less agressive scripted play.

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

However, I'd like to point out, that saying "reds outcash blues" is a limited perspective on even a stock game. A red will outcash a blue only until there are lvl 4 planets. As didaskalos pointed out, planet trading beats sdt.



Yes, but again, at the same time the Blue is getting his L4 planet so it the Red!

well, i think people would be disappointed if i didnt throw in my .02
B)the reds would not be as good without their blue furber, it is the TEAM that is "powerful" not the color of alignment.
C)as many have pointed out already, playing smart, thinking ahead, those are keys to win games, not "great offensive scripts" (also in a corp game, teamwork is key)
D)SGO, when the blue is getting his lvl4 planet how is the red getting his lvl4 planet? to colonise he has to Ewarp to terra. if there is even a half-wit blue in the game he will follow mr. red home, #SD# him, and take his stuff far before he can get any planet to lvl4. unless the blues are incompitant in which case they deserve to lose. time limits, turn limits etc all come in to play, but st8 up, if you are blue, and you see a non-allied red in fed, and you have equal to better assets, you cap his monkey Butt.

Slim

(edited by Harley Nuss to remove content that doesn't belong here)

A red is much less efficient in colonizing, especially if it is a stock game. In a stock game, from 10 hops out, a blue can get ~17.14 colos/turn. A red from 10 hops out (assuming there is a backdoor to terra), can get ~6.11 colos/turn. To get a simple L planet to lvl 4 would take the red nearly 3 times as many turns. Combine this with the ships a red can fly around in, and ultimately, red is a short term game solution. As always though, the edits dictate the play. A blue player will always be able to get more colos than a red player in a turn based game. If the edits mean that colo production will quickly outpace red cashing, then it will be no contest as to red or blue. If you have to pick early cash vs. good ships, it becomes a bit more difficult. You have to try to judge how long the game will last, etc.

Of course, the Blue has the colonist advantage when you are dealing with lone players. Yet we've got unlimited turns, 2 to 7 day truces, mega corps, mixed corps, in straight numbers there is NO disputing what you say (as usual) nor would I ever try (again).

I liked your suggestions on making a balanced game, some of them I'd never even considered as a game creator. I didn't think it was possible to make longer warp routes without messing up the game. I always left that setting alone on big bang because I wouldn't know what is a good setting and what isn't. Now that I know I won't corrupt my game, I'm going to experiment.

Thanks again.

I think a LOT of the problems that most of the people in here have is they're playing the wrong games. Unlimited turn games aren't designed to be a long term game. They're designed to be over in a few hours. I think a lot of you would be happier if you were playing 2500-5000 turn games. It would give you a lot of turns to play around with, but it wouldn't be as overbalanced for you as the unlimited turn games are.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord

Of course, the Blue has the colonist advantage when you are dealing with lone players. Yet we've got unlimited turns, 2 to 7 day truces, mega corps, mixed corps, in straight numbers there is NO disputing what you say (as usual) nor would I ever try (again).

I liked your suggestions on making a balanced game, some of them I'd never even considered as a game creator. I didn't think it was possible to make longer warp routes without messing up the game. I always left that setting alone on big bang because I wouldn't know what is a good setting and what isn't. Now that I know I won't corrupt my game, I'm going to experiment.

Thanks again.



I havent heard of anything bad happening when you lengthen them but I heard about a year or so ago of some problems people were having with ones that were a lot shorter than default. Might want to check it out, it may have been another problem or it may have been fixed by now.

quote:Originally posted by Heat Sink

With the advanceing scripts in the game, soon no one will be able to compete without advanced scripts. Some players are now able to grid without being caught. Then they run pdrop and can catch anyone who moves. This will ruin the game for anyone who can not figure a way around this.


One easy way a GameOp or SysOp can prevent pdrop is to edit ships that CAN carry photons into not allowing them to land on planets.

A player can be in a pod and still planet drop and kill a player.
[:D]

i would pay to see that

quote:Originally posted by Tradewarrior55

SGO Said:
"I agree with you 100 percent. Yet, there really is no way to create a game that is advantaged to the Blue player in the area of Cash!"

I disagree, I beleive I can make a game Blues will outcash Red's.
1. turn off steal from buy port, High % on Steal and rob.
2. Only Ships with large hold capacity are commish.
<shrugs> I think that would do it?



I don't know, maybe you're right, but I am thinking that you'd also have to make the ship with the largest holds, be a commission PLUS get 1 turn per warp. If you did that, you could get close to balanced but I bet an Alexio could still outcash the blue. Just a hunch.

[quote]Originally posted by Heat Sink

Okay guys, sorry I wasnt clear... but I made you waste all your time!
from my original post and what this topic is about, It dont matter if its a red or blue game. I was only commenting on offensive scripts that most players lack. all planet building, SSM scripts are available for the most part.

My problem with the Games is I play and I am sort of still learning the game, but with all the new scripts and not being able to keep up or being a script writer it is hard for me to win or even play a game for a long period of time, with new scripts like oremaker to fill up a planet so it is virtually impossible to take? How do you fix that to make a game better and last longer?

James