Hello, my name is Vash The Stampede. I am an up and coming TW2002 Gold sysop running TWGS on my 2.8 with 1gig memory. I am not playing the initial diagram. My game is not a win then rebang game. I will have an ongoing, realtime running game. 'What do you mean?', you ask? allow me to explain. - Marshall law is in effect, Stardock officials have more power than anyone. This means everyone follows laws or is destroyed. Law 1 - No attacking of any property unless the invasion is made on someone of the same rank. Corporation wars are only allowed if the corps have within 100,000 figs more or less than the attacker. Contests are held, prizes awarded from figs to that new starship you always wanted. This new crash course in TW variation will holfully bring in all thoughs players who need a little time to get situated. Each game will run for a course of 3 to 4 years. This will invoke undefeatable nations of power, give everyone the power to get as big as they want without some big bully walking up and thrashing thier fledgling fleet. Feedback would be appriciated.

So does it mean if you attack a weaker player(by the rules) youll just get destroyed or will you be kicked out of the game, 2nd you would probably need more sectors to do this and have multiple Stardocks to get a more realistic feel to the "galaxy" Your talking like real life with the U.N. Don't attack a small country for your satisfaction, but what if there's a reason such as it being envocked? Novel idea but most players can't (if not all of them) devote that much time to a game, you have 1000 players one corp has been in for a year all players have maxed out planets, ships, experience and whatever else.heck they could all be running solo. Some flaws with your plan could be rectified by having different games for each rank. Like communism good idea, it probably won't work though in actual reality. Just my two cents(more like a dollar tho).

I applaud the idea of trying what you have in mind, but I would recommend a different game. When you drastically try to make changes to something, far outside what it was designed for, you start having difficulties. Let me try to outline a few below.

quote:
Hello, my name is Vash The Stampede. I am an up and coming TW2002 Gold sysop running TWGS on my 2.8 with 1gig memory. I am not playing the initial diagram. My game is not a win then rebang game. I will have an ongoing, realtime running game. 'What do you mean?', you ask? allow me to explain. - Marshall law is in effect, Stardock officials have more power than anyone. This means everyone follows laws or is destroyed.


Who enforces this? A gameop? A non partial, non biased gameop? Do you have a player base that is interested in this? While I have head of some longer games, you have a different spin on it. So are the people who want longer games, also interested in this style?

quote:
Law 1 - No attacking of any property unless the invasion is made on someone of the same rank.


"Same Rank" as in experience rating? If that is what you mean, well, I am hoping you have this CAREFULLY thought out. As an example: Player 1 and Player 2 both have 980 exp. So same rank. Player 1 fires a full wave from his ISS at Player 2. Player 1 has now gained experience, and is no longer the same rank. But he finishes his attack. He violated the rules.

What about a corp that someone goes red on and some go blue. They now never have experience, and are immune to attack?

Or is the above only in regards to planets? What about sector figs? All someone needs to do is put sector figs out, and the attacker gains experience attacking them, and may no longer invade.

quote:
Corporation wars are only allowed if the corps have within 100,000 figs more or less than the attacker.


So how do I know how many figs the other corp has? And umm..I don't mean to be an Butt, but do you know how the game odds work? As an example (assuming generally stock edits), If I have 300k figs on my planets, it will take you in general 600kfigs (plus any figs to get through my ore) to invade. So as long as I can get enough figs to break the 100k barrier, I am not able to be invaded. Now on the other hand if you have the super edited ships with 8 offensive odds, this is completely different.

quote:
Contests are held, prizes awarded from figs to that new starship you always wanted. This new crash course in TW variation will holfully bring in all thoughs players who need a little time to get situated.


The majority of players who need the time to get situated tend to player on "newbie" servers, that don't have these major aggressor problems. Who will be teaching them how to get situated? If everybody is a newer player, who is explaining how it works? The non partial gameop?

quote:
Each game will run for a course of 3 to 4 years. This will invoke undefeatable nations of power, give everyone the power to get as big as they want without some big bully walking up and thrashing thier fledgling fleet.


As noted above, this will do exactly the above. UNDEFEATABLE. Umm...so why play? So after 4 years I can say, I have 5000 planets which are all Lvl6, max colos, and 10 Billion figs, and 500 Billion credits? The game is not tradediplomacy, it is tradewars. There are plenty of games like what you describe, Eve comes to mind. You can be "safe" for as long as you want, and learn and build, and it is all about the character you build. You have ideas which are interested, but not how TW was designed.

There is a difference between games lasting only a couple of days, which sucks, and games which are forced to last years. While the game idea may have merit, as you outlined above, this is so people can't take your stuff. The problem is, they never learn how to actually play the game.

Jhereg

The idea of echelons is an interesting one. You could run a TEdit script that could determine all players, planets, figs, ships, and credits for each corp. Then intelligently convert this data to a power rating, maybe a scale of 1-10. This takes exp and alignment out of the equation. Then only allow attacks to oponents with a +/- 1 power rating.

You have an uphill battle, but I applaud the effort. Ultimately, success or failure will be determined by the number of people who play. Just think it through thoroughly, as Jhereg said.

+EP+

Uhmm, ya. I completely agree with Jhereg on this on. The game is TradeWars, and most people simply want to do exactly what the name says. Why take a game and make it into something that will go on for 3-4years?? Wheew...I get old just thinking about it. BUT hey, if you have people willing to play that type of game go for it, I don't think they will learn much if they can't do much. Ill stick to playing my unlim's and sometimes turns.

Whatever floats your boats...
mob

I think everyone kinda covered what came to mind when I read the post. There was another person who had a game idea kinda like yours in this topic you might want to ask or look at what he is doing in his game.
http://www.eisonline.com/TWForum/topic. ... C_ID=17802
As for me I can barley stand a game that last longer then 30 days with out losing interest and if there is no one to fight with would probably lose interest faster but that’s me.
If you can find players who are willing to go along with your idea then go for it.

first off, love the name. vash is bad butt.
second, read Drac's post carefully. i dont think you fully understand the mechanics of how the game works (ex:rankings and combat odds)
also 4 years? who wants to play a text based game for 4 years where they can't actually win?
its an idea, but i think much research needs to go into this and it needs to be revamped before it can come close to working.
good luck.
(watch out for Legato)

Slim

quote:Originally posted by Bnix13

So does it mean if you attack a weaker player(by the rules) youll just get destroyed or will you be kicked out of the game, 2nd you would probably need more sectors to do this and have multiple Stardocks to get a more realistic feel to the "galaxy" Your talking like real life with the U.N. Don't attack a small country for your satisfaction, but what if there's a reason such as it being envocked? Novel idea but most players can't (if not all of them) devote that much time to a game, you have 1000 players one corp has been in for a year all players have maxed out planets, ships, experience and whatever else.heck they could all be running solo. Some flaws with your plan could be rectified by having different games for each rank. Like communism good idea, it probably won't work though in actual reality. Just my two cents(more like a dollar tho).


This is a partial description of my event. You are not just destroyed if you destroy somone of less rank, you are detain and help captive for the remainder of that game ( remember that 4 year game run time? [;)]) This means that noone should do this if they intend to play the game. No matter how big some Corps/Players get, others will have an ability to reach thier level (If thier slick, in less time) and attack them. This takes work, but not at all as much as is needed in a tourney or such game that runs 3-6 months. More sectors you say? Yes, wormholed to max sector ability. My guess this will be somewere around 40000-60000 sectors. Lots of places to start a nation there.

[quote
When you drastically try to make changes to something, far outside what it was designed for, you start having difficulties.
quote:

Im not drastically changing it, it still stands for what it always did. Im adding a new type of element to make the game more plasable to long time inhabitants.

[quote]
Who enforces this? A gameop? A non partial, non biased gameop? Do you have a player base that is interested in this? While I have head of some longer games, you have a different spin on it. So are the people who want longer games, also interested in this style?
[quote]

Its not so much a player base i have, but yet what i always wanted when i was younger - The ability to aformilate large armies of figs, planets and corporation power. This imploys that, and more. And yes, a gameop does take care of all federal inforcment, but federal power such as stardock is not something contestable, no matter how big you get you cannot break rules to the stratagy

[quote]
"Same Rank" as in experience rating? If that is what you mean, well, I am hoping you have this CAREFULLY thought out. As an example: Player 1 and Player 2 both have 980 exp. So same rank. Player 1 fires a full wave from his ISS at Player 2. Player 1 has now gained experience, and is no longer the same rank. But he finishes his attack. He violated the rules.
[quote]

Same rank means just that, Red or blue, you will still have a ranking level, red drops below 0, blue above. So if a 980 red player wants to attack a blue player the blue player must be 980 in order to call the attack. Once the attack is made it is irelivant of the exp order, this is tradewars, not summer camp. If you cant hold your own with playing the rating system your spoils will become anothers.

[quote]
What about sector figs? All someone needs to do is put sector figs out, and the attacker gains experience attacking them, and may no longer invade.
[quote]

Yes my friend, but sector figs are alot different in this game. You may put sector figs anywere, exept there is NO TOLL ALLOWED, and NO CONTROL of random sectors, you must have at least 4 planets in that sector to provoke any kind of defense position to the sector.





So how do I know how many figs the other corp has? And umm..I don't mean to be an Butt, but do you know how the game odds work? As an example (assuming generally stock edits), If I have 300k figs on my planets, it will take you in general 600kfigs (plus any figs to get through my ore) to invade. So as long as I can get enough figs to break the 100k barrier, I am not able to be invaded. Now on the other hand if you have the super edited ships with 8 offensive odds, this is completely different.
[quote]

You're right it is different with more figs, but how much is your total? Dont know that? ah. Here comes another rule of game. For corporations to invade other coprorations they must sumbit a request for conquest to the federation. This will audit both teams for a total fig count, as long as total figs (all player figs, sector figs, planet figs and so on) are within 100k. This leaves a fine margin for who can attack who.

[quote]
The majority of players who need the time to get situated tend to player on "newbie" servers, that don't have these major aggressor problems. Who will be teaching them how to get situated? If everybody is a newer player, who is explaining how it works? The non partial gameop?
[quote]

This is not true, i know many players who wish to push the limit of ownership and expantion further than a 6 month tourney game. We're not talking newbies, just like any game there will obviously be a select group of newbies, but likewise there will also be dominators. Not mixing the two in political and personal attacks (Destroying a 200 exp. when your well over 10k)

[quote]
As noted above, this will do exactly the above. UNDEFEATABLE.
Umm...so why play? So after 4 years I can say, I have 5000 planets which are all Lvl6, max colos, and 10 Billion figs, and 500 Billion credits?
[quote]

No, it will not. You sound tense, are you afraid if you thought you were undefeatable there might be someone that will prove you wrong? Nothing is undefeatable. Everything is possible.

[qoute]
There is a difference between games lasting only a couple of days, which sucks, and games which are forced to last years. While the game idea may have merit, as you outlined above, this is so people can't take your stuff. The problem is, they never learn how to actually play the game.
[quote]

Thats why this is a game edit, for people who want more than the 'actual' game.

quote:Originally posted by ElderProphet

The idea of echelons is an interesting one. You could run a TEdit script that could determine all players, planets, figs, ships, and credits for each corp. Then intelligently convert this data to a power rating, maybe a scale of 1-10. This takes exp and alignment out of the equation. Then only allow attacks to oponents with a +/- 1 power rating.

You have an uphill battle, but I applaud the effort. Ultimately, success or failure will be determined by the number of people who play. Just think it through thoroughly, as Jhereg said.

+EP+



Exactly, you have hit the nail on the head. All bases have been covered, and i have the ultimate plan. IP will be released once all hardware is installed (New faster dsl lines)

quote:Originally posted by mob

Uhmm, ya. I completely agree with Jhereg on this on. The game is TradeWars, and most people simply want to do exactly what the name says. Why take a game and make it into something that will go on for 3-4years?? Wheew...I get old just thinking about it. BUT hey, if you have people willing to play that type of game go for it, I don't think they will learn much if they can't do much. Ill stick to playing my unlim's and sometimes turns.

Whatever floats your boats...
mob






Once again, this is not a tradewars game server, i might have tourney type games, but this is obviously not that, and playing this way will help you become very good at - playing this way, you got it! This will be a special interest, not so much taking players from tradewars rather than actually creating another game.

quote:Originally posted by Slim Shady

first off, love the name. vash is bad butt.
second, read Drac's post carefully. i dont think you fully understand the mechanics of how the game works (ex:rankings and combat odds)
also 4 years? who wants to play a text based game for 4 years where they can't actually win?
its an idea, but i think much research needs to go into this and it needs to be revamped before it can come close to working.
good luck.
(watch out for Legato)

Slim


Research has been made, and a 4 year run time is nothing, people can play for 2 months, 1 day, or 3 years. Its a game just like any other. And what is winning? Isn't there just as much in enjoying yourself? TW has given me alot of joy, and none of it ever came from winning a game.

quote:Originally posted by Vash The Stampede
You're right it is different with more figs, but how much is your total? Dont know that? ah. Here comes another rule of game. For corporations to invade other coprorations they must sumbit a request for conquest to the federation. This will audit both teams for a total fig count, as long as total figs (all player figs, sector figs, planet figs and so on) are within 100k. This leaves a fine margin for who can attack who.


Well here goes. I tried to be helpful, I guess you didn't follow. Since I didn't like your tone later, and I am not having a great day, I guess I'll be a bit more direct.

Do you understand how the TWGS engine works? Or perhaps do you have you own new game engine. Let me help you.

Corp1 Has 4 Lvl5 Planets. Each with 300k figs each. In addition they have 100k sector figs. So assuming we call all do math, that is 1.3M figs. So to invade them I most have between 1.2M and 1.4M figs to attack.

So I take my figs, and move in. well I have to get through the 4M ore in the sector cannons...so....lets see...basic math. That is 1.333M figs of damage from 4M fuel.

Now, that would leave me 666k figs to invade the 1.3M figs? So to do this, it would require me to have a 6 offensive odds ship.

Now, perhaps they do not have sector cannons, and I have to atmosphere moth which eats more figs.

So I initially was trying to be helpful and show you some possible problems you might have. But you seem to have it all down. I noticed the 40k sectors....excellent! Umm...what version of TWGS runs that?


quote:
As noted above, this will do exactly the above. UNDEFEATABLE.
Umm...so why play? So after 4 years I can say, I have 5000 planets which are all Lvl6, max colos, and 10 Billion figs, and 500 Billion credits?
quote:

No, it will not. You sound tense, are you afraid if you thought you were undefeatable there might be someone that will prove you wrong? Nothing is undefeatable. Everything is possible.



Well, I understand you must be a top notch player, and a kick Butt guy, who can invade anything. But, this may surprise you, but I am decent at math. The above scenario becomes UNDEFEATABLE with the kind of edits you are having. As I said, I tried to be helpful, people offered suggestions to maybe look over what I said, but you seem to have it down pat, so good luck. I would LOVE to see the TWA file when you get finished.

Jhereg

Say what??

I think you would be better off playing eve then trying to bang and run a game like the one you are describing.

http://www.eve-online.com/

OOOOHhhhh, 40k sector game. I wanna see that pulled off....*g*