quote:
I like the idea of time limits to try to limit 24/7 scripting. It makes the game more of a strategy game than a game of who is faster at the keys (or scripts). However, as they stand, time limits seem to be more in favor of scripters. Here are two problems I have seen and possible solutions (please note, I am not claiming the solution ideas are mine, they're just the best I've heard )

1) A person can log in and out of the game very quickly, checking their messages for fig hits, and responding to them. If there is nothing to respond to, they log out. This can be done fast enough so you don't use up any time.

Solution: A time could be charged for logging in. This could be sysop configurable. For example, if I log into the game, I would get charged 2 minutes even if I log out immediately. I think the best way to go about this is once I've been charged my 2 minutes, I can log in and out as many times as I want, that way I can clear mines or moth without using up all of my time.

2) A person can sit outside the game and keep looking at the game rankings. When an alignment changes on a multiple of hitting one of their figs, they can log in and try to get the person.

Solution: The High Scores menu could be changed back to title instead of value. In this case, all you would be able to see would be drastic align changes (red to blue or blue to red) and large changes in experience.


I would appreciate any comments people might have on this topic, any problems I've missed, any holes in my solutions, anything else that you think may apply.


I best reply before others do .. because there are a few "eis" team members that disagree with this .. I too think that the player listing should be changed .. Either list just title or maybee update the clv list only once every 1/2 hour .. and then delay it 1/2 of an hour .. so you'll allways be 30-60 mins behind of what the actual values are .. its nice to see the full scores without entering the game .. but I think that measures need to be taken to stop the script hunters from using it to their advantage ..

As for the 2 min deduction .. I too think this is fine .. and will help stop some of the users abusing time limits ..


Regards

<<Doctor Who>>

The problem I see with the 2 minutes is that if you are abnormally disconnected, then you will have to log back in and lose 2 minutes for no reason.

quote:
The problem I see with the 2 minutes is that if you are abnormally disconnected, then you will have to log back in and lose 2 minutes for no reason.


It's for reasons like that that I think once you are charged your 2 minutes, you should be able to log in and out as many times as you like without any penalty in that 2 minutes.

quote:
The problem I see with the 2 minutes is that if you are abnormally disconnected, then you will have to log back in and lose 2 minutes for no reason.


I a 6 hour game what's the chances of you getting disconnected 180 times
vs getting a day off because someone else can log in and check msg's without even getting docked time ..


<<Doctor Who>>

FYI the 1 minute "honesty" minimum login in USO had like 0 effect on my login bot (and, yes, I was being honest ). 2 minutes would be similarly ineffective. As DW points out, that's 180 logins. That's plenty for a script to play with. To really enforce the spirit of the feature, it needs to be more like 15 minutes (preferably sysop configurable).

If you make it so you can log in 50 million times within that 15 minutes without further penalty then people swapping helpers, or being the victim of a sprintlink router will not really be penalised.

Dr. Bad

oh, also 1 thing you forgot is the obvious next stage in the anti-time limit script war...

deploy offensive figs, continually peruse the logs for "Some Sucker was attacked by Dr. Bad's fighters" and disconnect. Same rort as the High Score thing really. Maybe don't show the logs upon login, or maybe only 1hr old logs then, but up-to-date ones in CD once yer in the game...

Cheers,

Dr. Bad

and lastly (I promise I'll shut up now until someone else responds ) you forgot about colo-logoff scripts in your list of time limit abuses. These really show how ineffective a 2 minute minimum is:

Consider 20k colo regen
110 holds for colos in your ISS (rest for fuel)
That's 181 times _maximum_ I need to log in to get 24 hrs worth of colo regen.

Now consider 6hr time limit, and 2 minute minimum. 2*180=360=6*60...

so the player running colo_logoff can compete for all the colos even with a completely brain dead version of colo_logoff, whereas the player who plays a fair dinkum 6 hrs, only has access to 6/24= 1/4 of them... further, imagine for simplicity they were the only 2 competing... colo_logoff guy gets 75% with no competition, and then 50% of the remainder - so 87.5% all up. Other guy gets 12.5%...

Dr. Bad

quote:
I best reply before others do .. because there are a few "eis" team members that disagree with this .. I too think that the player listing should be changed .. Either list just title or maybee update the clv list only once every 1/2 hour .. and then delay it 1/2 of an hour .. so you'll allways be 30-60 mins behind of what the actual values are .. its nice to see the full scores without entering the game .. but I think that measures need to be taken to stop the script hunters from using it to their advantage ..

As for the 2 min deduction .. I too think this is fine .. and will help stop some of the users abusing time limits ..


Regards

>



I'm not sure "eis team members" you are refering too, but the only 2 that are involved in development discussions are whole heartedly for these types of changes.

I guess i will let some of the cat out of the bag here, but one of the major goals for v4.0 ( DISCLAIMER:: if the version makes it, and i am not saying its coming anytime soon if it does::) is to not only decrease the advantages of broadband scripting but eliminate it all together.

I know that some don't think its possible, but other online games have been successful in leveling the playing field to a great extent regardless of a players connection to the internet (with in reason - i.e a 30k or better connection and a cable connection). One of the first steps that has been discussed is time delays on such things as CIM reports and EXP and ALIGN changes (dated information) there are going to be a great many changes in fact in many areas, most of which in an effort to eliminate the advantages of broadband scripting and burst macroing. Now before any of these scripters start screaming to high heaven about this, it's the intention that v3.x will remain releativly the same as it is, although I am sure we will see a fix for the time limit issue in the near future for v3.x

The problem with making too many changes to v3 is simple, some people like scripting, a good deal of people actually. for every person that complains about super scripters another person says that's the type of game they want to play. And although you can't please all the people all the time, you can certainly try and please as many as possible.

Keep the ideas and suggestions coming, it can only help further the progress along



Rick Mead
Project Manager teamEIS

quote:
I guess i will let some of the cat out of the bag here, but one of the major goals for v4.0 ( DISCLAIMER:: if the version makes it, and i am not saying its coming anytime soon if it does::) is to not only decrease the advantages of broadband scripting but eliminate it all together.


hEH! Someone call the ASPCA, Gypsy is stuffing cats in bags!

Lisa M. Wilson
aka Rave
uhndagrowhn bbs

uhndagrowhn bbs
telnet://uhndagrowhn.merseine.nu

The scripters will always win. TradeWars is a game entirely about math, no matter what you do about it. Ultimately, no human can compete with a computer on matters of pure math. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Build what most scripts do now directly into the game itself, and the playing field will be levelled, as everyone will automatically have access to scripting, regardless of connection speed.